A Fundamental Disconnect
Ah yes, Nepal is on the road to peace. Stop being a pessimist, blogdai and get with the program, you say.
Well, let's just see what the "program" has to offer. Hmm. Today Richard Ragan of Nepal's brand of the World Food Program decried the petty transportation strike that is preventing vital food shipments from reaching the hungry in Jumla, Rolpa and Dolpo. So, where in our new government's agenda lies the resolution of this transport strike? Nowhere, that's where. The day-to-day issues facing Nepal are of no concern. We'll ignore them as always and maybe they'll go away.
And what about the fact that we seem to have two very different parties operating their own brand of government at the same time, without even a hint of compromise? Let it go. Things will work themselves out under this new atmosphere of hope. Just because none of these people have ever given the slightest indication of a willingness to compromise in the past does not mean that they won't now, miraculously, work out their differences and give up their individual power centers for the good of the common man, right?
Yes, let's get on the peace train with this new agreement with the Maoists, shall we? We in Nepal are so blind that we will trust these thugs again and again because we are too stupid to differentiate between what sounds hopeful and what the momentum of our own recent history has tried to teach us. Give the bums all the chances they want. They've never once gotten it right, but maybe this time....
Governments, democratic ones, allow for equal representation from all sectors of society through the election process. Elections? What are those? Forget the fact that the NC and the Maoists have unilaterally nominated--rather than elected--their own cronies to all governmental and interim government posts. The future is full of hope, who needs elections?
And what of democracy? We in Nepal think it means that we have the freedom to do whatever we want without responsibility to other members of society. Sounds like utopia! Governments, laws and Constitutions are mere formalities. If we truly want something, we take to the streets and throw stones until we get our way; how democratic!
Yes, this is the best chance for peace we've seen in a long time. So what if it turns out to be a shell-game to fool the UN and once all the moderators and peacekeepers are gone, Nepal goes back to the same ineffective "business as usual" corrupt government. Oh, and we'll just ignore the fact that Maoist atrocities are increasing; wouldn't want to put a gloomy face on such a historic and landmark peace agreement, would we?
I like democracy in Nepal. It's easy. All one has to do is give up. Let those with money and guns tell us what to do. Who cares if all the big democratic nations of the world are full of citizens who take a critical view of legislative actions and a keen interest in political ethics. That's just too much work for us Nepalis.
Blind trust is a lazy man's alternative to holding his government accountable.
-=blogdai
posted by blogdai @ 11/14/2006 07:08:00 PM
165 comments
165 Comments:
So then, what is "The Fundamental Disconnect" exactly? It's the free pass you've given these jokers. The blind trust.
All this shows is that Nepal has no clue about how to run a democracy.
Democracy is HARD WORK. You scrutinize every move of your politicians and demand accountability.
Democracy is UNCOMFORTABLE. It might be the most forcibly engaging form of government there is. You can never rest. You must always guard the rules and practices of your democracy.
If you cared at all about your country and its pretensions of democracy you would demand elections and demand a solid unified government.
Now there's something that would make one take to the streets.
-=blogdai
-=blogdai
Blogdai - the journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step.
For once Nepal is peaceful. When you have no peace or security how you to have elections and make a democracy function?
Let's be patient. Whatever you may say the Maoist deserve a chance. Don't expect things to change overnight. Even in the US there is a problem with accountability with its leaders... No one is saying things are perfect. But out of all our options I think this is by far the best scenario.
Even in the US there is problem with the accountability of their leaders. Yes! This is true. But in Nepal - Maoists who are in the parliament claim themselves to be leaders - without going for elections but by mass murdering people almost equal to genocide. At least in the US the government is not responsible for killing it's own people but in Nepal it is! At least in the US they vote and chose their government but in Nepal we don't get a chance of election. This is Democracy - Nepal style.
It's high time the dumb heads stopped being Pundits and flooding every blog on the net that has Nepal on it.
Blogdai, email?
Look Anon/Blogdai:
The closet thing we have in Nepal to a democratically elected government are the SPA. At this point in time there is really no alternative form of government okay? Unless you have another suggestion.
Anon, I am very cautious of the Maoists. But they should be given a chance. They have made all the right moves. CA elections will be held soon and they will restructure how many seats are allocated to the various parties. Just have some patiance. Its tough since its hard to forget about the Maoists part atrocities. But we owe it to the thousands that have died, to give this peace process a shot.
I have been saying this since 2001:
This conflict has nothing to do with the people; has nothing to do with democracy; has nothing to do with economic development; has nothing to do with the teachings of Marx.
It is simply about greed and the lust for power.
There was no peoples revolution in Nepal and never will be so long as the elite of the country keep playing their game of power grab. They have tried to remove the King from the center of power so that they can remove a player from the game.
What you see in Nepal is what you get. You have the a feudal system which uses modern political vocabulary to rally and attain power.
The Nepali political system is a joke. Its just a charade.
Bhudai Pundit; I am sorry man but you are deluded. Hope is not a method. Sorry. At the moment you have sharks dressing up as dolphins to attract other dolphins for eating. Your only hope is that the sharks like being dolphins so much that they forget their hunger.
Welcome back, Ian.
-=BD
Ian:
What the hell makes you a know it all uh? I don't mind you saying that you think I am wrong but don't go tell me I am deluded.
This might come as a suprise to you but its always about greed and lust for power - everywhere.
Besides I would like to hear what you and Blogdai's solution is. Come on let's hear it.
Truth is uncomfortable, but that's the way it is...
Those who who can't see Maoists murderers masquerading as a political party are simply
(sorry I can't find a better word) deluding themselves.
The sooner people stop pretending peace with Maoists the sooner we can get on with devising real peace in Nepal.
They said they have 35000 army personnel, now they are on a recruiting drive to make up the number ....
Trust these murderers and you will be doomed forever!
blogdai, i don't always agree with your point of view but hey man i LOVE your style of writing.
(on a more serious note) i don't think our wonderful citizens of nepal actually know what they are getting into making their bed with the maoist. you can already see maoist are not to be trusted - they have not given up their bullish intimidating ways. we are on for a ride of a life time. we are so f......
prachanda = MURDERER
Hey sarki, if there is no peace with the Maoist how do you figure there will be peace in Nepal?
Look don't mistake me for a Moaist sympathizer. I recently read some Maoists have started recruiting (forcefully) in the villages. If this continues I am fully behind resuming a military campaign against the rebels. But before we do that we MUST MUST give peace a chance!
Don't just listen to people like Ian who have little or no stake in what happens to Nepal or Nepalis!
Bone jarring slap is what Bhudai needs. Is he androgynous? Yes, give peace a chance but at what cost, I mean if the opportunity cost is so regressive that we lose our way of life, freedom and heritage and even then it is ok to give benefit of doubt to Prachande and his gang of thugs. C'mon, don't act Chamberlain and promote act of appeasement. This only aggravates situation more. How can one go on with "chance for Maoist" when they dictate terms and place to SPA and actively recruits militia all the while- historic peace accord ain't even dry yet. Awake from your slumber of naivety and hope against hope. You know it. Time is to act proactive not reactive.
By the way, why do you think Ian does not have a stake? May be he is businessman, does it matter to you that he has to be Nepali to speak against what he sees wrong? You sound like maoist -inspired (Grover case). All is well when they make deal with India to make Nepal a satellite, run down all the pillars of society in the name coined by Indians "Loktrantra" but when a man speaks a truth- you go overboard. Sorry dude- you are deluded.
Sansar
With a choice between a bloody war and a possible way to diffuse the maoist's momentum, a rational man would usually choose the latter.
There is a small possibility that bringing the Maoists into the fold will diffuse them and allow healing to begin, though history hasn't seen many examples of it when it comes to Maoists.
More likely there will be no real progress in Nepal for decades; it will be a long sad story of promises followed by setbacks.
It would be better to crush them now and then rebuild on a solid foundation. Unfortunately, crushing them is not realistic, so alas, bringing them into the fold is the best of 2 poor choices. If the various factions could at least focus on long term economic development, in 20 to 40 years there will be no Maoists murderers left.
Sansar,
What way of life, freedom or heritage have you lost or think you are losing? Is it freedom to drive drunk, kill a popular singer under your SUV and walk scot free with a crown on your head?
Bone jarring slap to Bhudai? Why stop there, better get him under your tyres while you still have your freedom?
Ok Maoists murderers, the rest - saints? When everyone is evil, there is no option but to choose an evil and hope evilness fades away. 'Hope' is the only commodity left for us Nepalese. Maoists deserve a chance if they are willing to part away from their past behaviour (and I and lots of people I know see their new form as a better option than the King or present political parties). How do you know they have changed - we don't know but there is always hope.
-Sagar
Sanar,
Oh I could so start blurting out insults and start a war of words. But thats the last thing we need.
What is it that you called me? androgynous? Man I actually had to look that up.
Anyway man, look I would also come here and give this hardcore pesudo-nationlist rambo rethoric. However, I have long realized that's not going to get us anywhere. You guys must understand that we can't just "crush" the Maoists. Please don't talk like Borat this is serious stuff. War should always be the last option.
Now I don't understand why you say
we are losing our heritage, freedom etc. The Maoists cannot take any of that from us. Why are you so insecure? They will have 73 seat in the house of representatives. If the elections take place and people vote, I bet its going to be even less. So long as they stop other activities it is far better to have them included in the government isn't it?
And if they don't, then we will all support fighting them.
Change - essentially reflects admission of guilt for past conduct which, when viewed through present, agrees not to follow old ways. However, neither have Maoists assumed any guilt for their 'wrongdoing', nor have they fundamentally shifted their practically obsolete goals or their method for achieving such goals. Democracy - at least to Maoists - makes sense only when they are winning!
Hypothetically, if Maoists are to lose in local/national elections, I wonder if they are going to accept their defeat as a natural outcome of participatory democracy, or will we see another cycle of violence and unreasonable demands.
Perhaps this is the fundamental disconnect that Nepalis are trying to hitch with abstract notions like 'hope'.
That maybe be so. But you cannot speculate and hypothesize and resume the war based on that. Let there be elections and let the Maoist reject it and resume fighting. We will do the same...
It least we can say that we did all we can and gave peace a chance.
I don't think Ian knew what the hell he wrote. Actually, I'm pretty damn sure he didn't. And you know what? I don't even blame him.
We're all a little confused here, and by we I mean even us -born- and raised -in -our -motherland -Nepalis. Even we're confused. You don't expect a foreigner to be able to understand the complexities, do you, when even the natives don't know what the heck is going on?
But I believe in peace, so I'm prepared to give this one a try. That's what I want to say to you naysayers. Give it one chance. If it doesn't work, we can always go back to what you guys want to do. But when peace seems like an option, the last thing we want are sourpusses sinking everyone else's optimism with their doomsday forecasts. I know its hard to smile when your heroes are not in charge, even if they look good, but come on then, don't be so grouchy.
If you can't smile, at least put on a neutral face.
Manan.
Once is kissable, twice is excusable, thrice is pardonable, fourth time is kickable, fifth time is?
This bhusiya wants a fifth time for his terrorist brothers and their supporter.
P.S: Actually it will be 7th or 8th time but I couldn't find good analogy.
People like Manan are the people who showing photos of a few foreigners who were holding demonstrations during that Mob movement in April. At that time those foreigners in Ktm, for a few dollars, free sex were demonstrating without having a clue. Those foreigners knew a lot about Nepal. Here Ian is talking with his reading on Nepal and he doesn't have a clue.
STFU Manan. It's you who hasn't a clue on Nepal. Pathetic piece of shit, you just can't be right when you support the terrorists and corrupted politicians. There is only one right way in Nepal - the King way and all other ways are wrong. You must realize by now that no one will give into your's (and bhusiya's and prismahole's) talks here.
Why is it that whenever I write something the idiots are the first to respond?
And the guys who still go...'the King is the way', I swear, I have no idea what to do with these people anymore. I just don't. What can you do with these guys? The world is changing, things are happening everywhere, new ideas, ideals are shaping our world, and yet these guys.....I don't know what to say. All I can do is pray for their speedy return to the eighteenth century, from which they somehow lost their way and ended up here in the 21st. I don't even pray often, but I'll pray for you, anonymous. Go back home, go back where you belong.
Fair enough Manan, let's give the bastards one more try. No one wants this or any peace process to succeed more than blogdai; but the point is, we've not given these bums any disincentive for failure.
Any thing, any act of murder, any blatent corruption is simply given the thumbs up and a free pass from the Nepali people. Why should these guys change their ways when, by our own inaction and silent voices, we've basically told them that we'll put up with and accept anything they do?
Sure, let's give them ONE LAST CHANCE. I hope all Nepalis are at the end of their rope and paying as much attention as you, Manan. But are they? What will you do when you all get screwed again? Are Nepalis prepared to do anything but roll over?
And no, the King is definitely NOT the way, but should play a role.
-=blogdai
Did anyone notice that anonymous 8:47 sounds a lot like Dr. Thomas Marks?
We know that the good Dr. drops in from time to time, but we've yet to spot a true posting. Hmm.
-=blogdetective
It might well be your hero Blogdai. You never know who the bloggers are!
This Anon above is quiet frankly becoming a bore. He/She never wirtes anything of substance. He/She's only insult is to call me Bhusiya (is that mean to be funny by the way? or insulting?) Yet Blogdai never repremands him since he implicitly sucks up to Blogdai and acts like his "yes man".
Yes let's all give the Maoist a chance and see how it turns out.
Prism, I know you have your biases and bone to pick but you are shooting blind. Unless Maoist totally and radically restructure basis of our being i.e., culture,heritage and way of life they will not succeed. And to hope or afford them chance to experiment with our life is quiet foolish while we still have time. The reason I went after Bhudai is- he talks about maoist atrocities and all but still thinks about giving them a chance, is this rational? He personifies SPA to me- bend till it breaks and succumb to charm of Maoist. Does it take loss of freedom to realize that you cannot post a damn thing in net anymore to wakes all up. So the bone jarring is applicable
Believe me If Had SUV- the first persons to be under my tires would be people who cried Human rights to advantage of Maoist, civil society members, and people who went overboard being a liberal democrat and now are speaking against maoist conscriptions & extortion drive.
But prism by the time your light refracts- you really lose your sensibility, think about that otherwise Maoist gonna bring home the booty of mayhem to share it with you- coming near you, soon.
Sansar
I have two immediate observations from the the ongoing conversation:
1. There is an assumption by several posters that non-Nepali people are ignorant of the issues at stake.
2. Bhudai and his ilk appear to be putting forward the view that we should give the Maoists a chance but there are a number of observations that i would like them to consider:
Some background information:
Maoists continue the:
-Abduction and extortion of businessman
-Recruitment of school children in Dhading and Sarlahi.
-Forced donation drive across the Kathmandu Valley.
-Political figures, business man and others continue to disappear.
Giving them a chance?
Is it not illogical, nay, irrational that the SPA should give the Maoists a chance to prove themselves when they have yet to repent, compromise and demonstrate through action that they are willing to change?
If you think my analysis is incorrect here please refute me with evidence to the contrary.
Please show me how the Maoists are deserving of a chance to prove themselves given their present and continuing use of violence.
When do you say no?
I think every one agrees that the Maoists continue their violence and extortion irregardless of the political process but at what point do we draw a line? At what stage in the process do the SPA stand up to Prachanda and say you must stop this violence against the Nepali people or we will have to intervene? This leads most political realists to the conclusion that the SPA don't have the balls to stand up to the Maoists but lets forget that for a moment. History is full of political figures that made the mistake of 'compromise at all costs'. I see Chamberlain has already been mentioned but at least he was sensible enough to stand aside when he realised his mistake. Do you think Koirala will stand aside if and when the shit hits the fan?
In defence of Bhudai's comments:
Nothing is certain in life and perhaps the sharks like being dolphins so much that they change their ways. Yet, Bhudai strikes me as an intelligent man and even he must admit deep down that hope is not a method.
I stand by my earlier comments about the political system in Nepal.
Furthermore;
Watch Koirala closely and the political realignment that is taking place in Nepal.
He might be a tired old prune but he is more politically astute than dullards like Deuba and Nepal who run where the power and money is.
Koirala is well aware off the threat that the Maoists pose as you can see from his "big gamble" speach.
His aims appear to be:
1. United with NC (D) to ensure that Congress continue to have a majority in any CA.
2. Quietly ensure that the King remains as head of state and favourable to Congress so that if the shit does hit the fan he has the Royalist backing.
I would like to elaborate further but i can't be bothered -written enough today!
Man, It seems like I will have to eat my own words. The recruitment of children has become so bad even the Prime Minister has had to warn the Maoists publicly! I don't know it seems to be getting worse.
Ian I didn't say that you are ignorant of the issues. I said you didn't have anything at stake(personally).
I think it is best if Anon stay out of discussions and instead devote his mental faculties towards coming out with more creative insults that end in '...tards'. That can be his contribution to the new Nepal. By reading his posts, I don't think he is capable of anything else.
My analysis is this: I think a huge disconnect between the Maoist leadership and the lower level cadres is begining to form. Because I don't think that Prachanda, Baburam and Mahara want to resume fighting. Just look at the life they were living to the treatment they are getting now. I can't imagine they would want to give that up and go back to hiding in the jungles.
What seems to be happening is that Prachanda is loosing control over his own militias. When the Maoist cadres were recruited they were induced to join the PLA with these unrealistic promises. They were indoctrinated with this Maoist propoganda and now all of a sudden they have to give all that up.
As I've said for years now, Prachanda NEVER really had control of his militias. Where you been?
-=BD
Let me make your job easier, blogdectective! I am no Dr. Marks. Although I find his analysis - shaped by Macarthyian witch-hunt - extremly lop-sided, I nevertheless have to agree with some of the issues he raises concerning Maoist's ideological flaw. No one -to my knowledge at least, except for few like Marks have taken on the Maoists at such 'intellectual' level. Preeti Koirala tried but her analysis turned out to be mostly analogies of events and states with no relevance to current Nepali situation.
Having said that, we can sit here and curse the devil all we want but that's not gonna get us anywhere. Like I mentioned in my earlier post, the only way to put the breakes on Maoists political momentum is to counter their claim of advancing a morally, intellectually, politically, socially superior agenda. For that, there has to ba a concerted effort between all those who can think rationally - and write/express accordingly - to put out columns and articles on various Nepali and foreign media.
I am up for consolidating the grievances and attacking the devil at its core. Interested candidates should forward their queries to:
freeyoursenses@yahoo.com
anon 8:47
Anon said:
... the only way to put the breakes on Maoists political momentum is to counter their claim of advancing a morally, intellectually, politically, socially superior agenda.
Agree with that wholeheartedly. Just harping about a military solution or how king should take over again doesn't get us there.
If we are serious about countering the _sadistic_ Maoist threat, it is not effective simply clumping the SPA with the Maoists. I think the way to do it is by isolating the hardcore Maoists from the SPA and the moderate Maoists and throwing light on how deranged, ineffective and useless their idealogy is. There may be other creative ways too and would be happy to discuss.
I know you didn't say i was ignorant of the issues Bhudai. Sorry, I made two observations about the current post -I am not categorising.
I don't think you should assume that i have no personal interest. I think assumptions should be left at home with the dog.
Prism,
You are assuming what many of us here already know to be untrue -namely that the Maoists are a united organisation with a central command structure.
Secondly and this is a point i am personally concerned about; the short term impact of a political settlement on Nepali villagers who have lived the last 10 years of their life wielding the power of a gun. More long term, what is the sociological effect?
I like Blogdai coining 'The fundamental disconnect' it seems quite a fitting way to describe Nepal.
If i were to define it, I would use it to describe is the hierarchical disparity between the political machinations of the elite and the people they claim to represent. Both are disconnected and evidence of the essentially feudalistic nature of Nepali politics.
"If i were to define it, I would use it to describe is the hierarchical disparity between the political machinations of the elite and the people they claim to represent."
Show me one place on this planet where this is not true!
The phenomenon may be universal, but that does not make it universally acceptable. "The world is feudal, therefore it's ok" is your arguement, essentially.
The rabid ideological finger-pointings of Senator Joseph McCarthy have absolutely nothing to do with Dr. Mark's approach. You've probably picked the worst and most incompatable analogy possible.
Feel smarter?
-=BD
Talks and blahs and talks and blahs. In the meantime: Prachanda is getting all the legitimacy he needs in New Delhi.
Talker bugs.
Why now, aren't you the perky little pro-Marks propounder on the net.
Like I said earlier, even if I vehemently disagree with Marks' approach to dealing with rampant and reckless ultra-leftists, I have to - in case of Nepal - agree on ONE point/article that seems to have gained some traction and relevance: Hope is not a method. Besides that, Marks can keep his opinion to himself and I can work to save my country from falling into the hands of communists.
For a guy running this site since 2005, you, my friend, have been incapable of putting any substantive argument out there to change/shape anything practical while Nepal progresively falls into the hand of Maoists. Perhaps you should focus your effort on much broader scale, rather than only trying to moderate a site of like-minded individuals. Let this not be an another instance of disillusioned bloggers who have run out of things to say.
Whatever happened to your Nepal Advocacy Group or something to that effect? You were getting somewhere with that.
I don't feel any smarter or dumber by your blind-faith in Marks. If that's what gets you going - so be it, but the issue at hand: can you or not take on the task of taking on the Maoists where it matters. If so, let's work together; if not, stop this charade and get out of the way!!!
Did Blogdai lose his magic wand?
The man had 12 months to change the political landscape and he failed to move a rock.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Marks or Marx?
For that is the question. As my mother once said at a T junction -"we can go left or we can go right."
She wasn't joking but i laughed any way.
Blogdai never had a magic wand. He only danced to the tunes of G - but who could blame him, we all danced with him, at least initially. And when G fell earlier this year, the music stopped, blogdai missed his step and crashed! But he still had sympathies/loyalties of people who thought Nepal was headed in the wrong direction - sympathies/loyalties he could have used to a more fruitful outcome than some blog blah blah!!!
The pictures of Maoists recruiting 16 year olds over at Wagle's blog left me feeling as if I'd taken a punch.
If the Maoists are really only using the calm to regroup and rearm, then what option do we have?
But if they really want to go to war again, if war was really what they wanted, isn't it strange that their leaders would venture straight into the lion's jaws?
And what in the world are the politicians doing? Yes, I realize that negotiating with the Maoists is amoral, but realpolitik demands that you make a deal with the devil from time to time. But you at least make sure you know well what the devil is up to.
Well, at least Wagle got my respect today.
I think this blog is quite relevant. On many things I have serious differences of opinions with blogdai, but things are clearer as a result. Anyway, you do need a place to express your views, a forum. UWB is mostly left leaning and this one has a rightward tilt, but you need to know what the people are thinking.
And occassionally, you do get good insights, so we need places like this. More so, actually.
But it may be time to make this blog more focussed. So that we the people can have a more sincere debate. I don't want to spend my time arguing with idiots, who come here from time to time and make me feel like I've wasted something.
gyane is sure to be indicted but will he ever be punished? will the impunity continue?
i was just wondering what the guys flocking this site would do if gyane is ditched from the throne and subsequently sent to jail for his crimes. (i don't think the jhallu netas are daring enough but lets suppose for a while that they dare). what you do guys?
To answer your question Anon, I would think Prachanda would come next in dare to head to the jail.
Dreaming of becoming an absolute president, isn't he??
My magic wand only works on those who have the capability to think independently.
We've done it all here, we've incited, mapped out grass roots activist strategies, suggested a platform for Girija, rewritten Nepal's constitution, given names addresses and locations where you, the public can express your concerns to those in power; and we've even offered to throw away democracy and start something more to a Nepali's liking.
What more can we do here? Do you want me to sell guns?
All the ideas, thoughts, comments and philosophies you need to change your country are RIGHT HERE IN THIS BLOG. And yet, we still come up against the "Fundamental Disconnect" which take the form of mass incomprehension here.
Dear God, after all we've expressed and been through, some joker still is worried about royal "impunity" after these worthless royal punishment hearings. I don't know how many times I've said: GET OVER IT. G. is no longer your issue.
Many of you can't get past your biases, can't think independently enough to move forward, and can't compromise or adapt your views in the face of the many good ideas posted here. Such is the canvas I've had to work with since 2005.
Democracy means forming a concensus. It means sitting down with people you don't like and having a good argument in the spirit of finding common ground. It means ceding what may be your longest-standing belief or opinion for the benefit of the majority. Fully half of the posters here--and we DO get hundreds--cannot or will not grasp this concept. It is at the core of the "Fundamental Disconnect" that will keep Nepal backward and tribal for as long as you allow Girija and Prachanda to run the show.
Forget the magic wand, I need a blowtorch.
-=blogdetonator
click the link below to watch prachanda speaking in the program organised by the hindustan times.
http://wstream.net/wstech/vod/prachanda/index.htm
if the link doesn't work. check HT's website.
apparently prepared by baburam, prachanda reads out the text. but, i wished he had read few more times before finally delivering on the occasion.
anyway, hope it will provide enough masala to you guys to bash prachanda and maobadis.
Prachanda did not deserve to be invited to that summit. The peace process is not complete and the Maoist autrocities continue. And if it continues, Prachanda and the Maoists will be tagged as terrorists and a military campaign will resume. I have personally written to the Hindustan Times to state my disapproval and disgust for inviting a man like Prachanda.
Nothing has been achieved so far. There is absolutely no reason to parade Prachanda like some hero!
I suggest people here also write to them.
leadershipsummit@hindustantimes.com
Maoist are pouring from all region into kathmandu in their full combat dress-eyewitness account. Six buses loaded with Maoist came to Kathamndu from Trisuli. So tell me- are we still hungover this peace accord?
Sparks gonna fly soon and we dumb and dumber will go analytical in defining clauses of peace accord. I just wish that all the dumb a--holes start a fight back campaign soon rather before shoved up yours.
See the true colors of Cocksucker- Prachande'- didn't I say he was black and blue India stooge. He will sell even his own mother to get what it wants, he is off the rail. He has already sold this nation along with SPA to Indians. If there is still doubt then just you wait when the talks starts of India adminstered nation call Nepal floats around.
Days of Shoting blanks is gone, if you still have your wits, days of shooting in real is here. Accept this fact to save your skin and kin. Stop counting on your government of disconnected, disjointed and deprived bunch of demons to come and save you.
Welcome to the Communist Republic of Nepal.
Trojan Horses and everything.
The peace accord resown every day. Furniture keeps moving but its all musical games therein.
Regression ends in murder.
Welcome to the Communist Republic of Nepal.
Better to fly through and watch the Mountains disappear behind the red wall of blood.
Fantastic phrases or poem or ironical texts, whatever you call them, from Anon 5:36.
So many people want to do something but no one is coming out aloud. Instead of all of us being divided, we must get together and get together now! It's now or never in the fight against SPAM!
Just went thru Bajie Wagle's site- he writes he is trebling with happiness as peace accord is signed. I am happy too but on different account. This Bhaun dominated politics has run its course and from now on the blame and counter blame will start. Why? you may ask. Its because Ian Martin intiated (go through his debacle in E.Timor)accord along with dubious Maoist nod and SPA's surrender spells armagadon before ink is dried.
I may sound going against the grain but thats all I see, just cannot find the light no matter how hard I try to see it.
Well, Prachanda and Koirala have signed a peace accord. I write 'a' peace accord because at this point in time I don't think we can honor it with the definite article. Time will tell, as they say, but this is a hopeful day.
finally, they did it: they signed the peace accord. i was quite optimistic. and am happy. thanks to all.
will everything be fine? no. it will never be. but violence will subside. and people once again start to work on their dreams, their projects...
i can now, and i'll...
i know it has come as a shock to most of yu guys flocking this blog. of course most of you also want to see nepal prosper, there is no doubt, but you want to see it at the cost of maoists demise, and you want the status quo continued, you want you guys' dominance in nepali socio-polico-economic domain contiune...
we want change. not at anybody's cost.
i'm hopeful. i see in it a dawn of new nepal...
come out of your shell guys. at least vent your anger. rant.
even your malik has issued a statement hailing the peace accord. can't believe?
no, i'm not kidding!
radio nepal said, according to the statement issued by palace secretariat, gyane was happy to learn about the peace accord and was optimistic that the country will now peacefully move forward.
Blogdai,
Myself and Author (from savenepalnow.org) are trying to get in touch with you. Please give us an email address of yours (yahoo, hotmail, gmail, etc.) and not the current one that you have.
We will send you an email and you may or may not reply back as per your wish.
Hurry up please.
There hasn't been a new comment on savnepalnow.org for the last 3 months. Hehehe... maybe Blogdai can give them a little jolt.
Maybe Nepal has been saved or it is 3 months too late.
The peace accord has been stitched together with the blood of the innocent and dollar notes of the bandit kings.
If liberty holds free in 12 months hence then I shall applaud and kiss the gaudy two faces of a silver piece and throw it unto the Kings feet in honor of his stupidity.
Welcome to the Communist Republic of Nepal -where we charge you extra for living.
Trojan Horses and everything.
Everything.
A lament to the political school of thankless task.
Peace-
It has gone up your ass.
Squeeze it out and watch the crass idiosyncrasy that awaits.
Welcome to the Communist Republic of Nepal -where opposite is the opposite of the meaning of opposite and opposite we are.
Alas, all is peace.
At last, i can drink Raksi until I awake from this blessed dream of peace and anarchy.
Who ever this breathless idiot is who keeps demanding an e-mail, presumably for my IP address, get off it. Say what you want here or use my usual e-mail that is widely known to all posters here.
Who also is the fundamentally disconnected fool that thinks we want the "status quo" for Nepal? God, it's one thing to be disconnected, it's another thing entirely to be disconnected and just make up your own reality.
All you gloating ingnoramuses need to do is READ this blog to find out that we don't trust the Maoist or Girija, but we all DO want peace.
-=blogdai
Geez. I do not need your IP address. And IP address does absolutely nothing because the dynamic and static addresses rule out the possibility of tracking a person. They depend on the particular place where your server is your located. To track a person you need to go through the process of going through the ISP which in turn will never reveal the identity of their clients - unless the law requires them to. If they reveal the identity without the authorisation of their client, they will be in utter violation of international internet rules and just take them and sue them bad at any court of justice (preferably outside Nepal because inside Nepal there is no system of justice).
Coming back, I need your email for discussion purposes and you could have trusted me by now as you know which side of the reality I belong to. I do not believe in violence but I believe in ending violence - by hook or crook.
Your current email address has every chance that your emails can be read by the owner of that Domain or any admin of that Domain! If you are so scared, be scared of this fact.
Anyway, I will send you an email at your current address and then we will see what we can do from there.
THE WORST OF ALL FEARS.
Critical situations demands critical actions. Just when we think Peace is here to stay, we should also prepare ourselves for the “After Effects”. Political solution is not enough and no question has how so ever been raised regarding the military wing of the Maoist, in the recent political negotiation. Storing their guns behind locked doors for few months or forming an interim government consisting of Maoist leaders is definitely not an answer to the problem, but a problem in itself. Now, that they have signed an exclusive peace treaty, people like us should make sure we leave no stones unturned to disarm the rebels completely.
What will be an answer to the 35000 strong rebels? Merging them with Nepal Army is definitely not an answer, but just a temporary deception. The future: A lot of unsatisfied trained guerillas, who have lived long as vermin, ruled by the delirium of power and vanity they, see no difference between right and wrong. With deteriorating economy and donor countries like US not willing to fund anymore, its just a matter of time before looting, murders, abduction and extortions becomes our daily news. With no employment and no funds to back the huge governance expenditures soon or later our country will be on its knees. The after effect is the worst of all fears.
The current government with absolutely no political mandate is just another deck of cards for India. They have although for now succeeded in bring the Maoist to a peace deal, we should always remember it should not cost us our freedom.
Author,
Savenepalnow.org
author@savenepalnow.org
PS. Blog dai let me know if you have an alternative email. Its critical that we get in touch.
And Regarding, Savenepalnow.org, I am really sorry for not have updated the website for a long time. It is because the site has been blocked from my location. I am not sure, but for some reason I have not been able to open the site when I connect using my regular phoneline. Anyways...Blog dai's has always been tight with his views....Keep it up!
I need praise for my ego to flourish- watch the world vanish with my humped horizon.
So ye like the words of Anon @1:59 PM or do you recoil in tribute?
:)
Long praise the Gordian knot of faith that passes through peace and violence.
Lest, i have long enough scissors.
Savenepalnow.org Author,
What Nepal needs now is perhaps saving from people like yourselves!
What is so spineless that you need to communicate with Blogdai secretly rather than bring up the issue here and debate openly?
What gives you the right to make such a judgement for the reasons why Author would like to contact Blogdai?
Email is not a spineless act but dissolving parliament is a spineless act of 'peace'
Lest i cut the Gordian Knot, peace shall rain down on the peaple of Nepal like the changing of the seasons.
God bless the righteousness of peace loving Maoists.
i do understand, why should blogdai give away is e-mail just because someone is persistenly pestering for it?
all along blogdai has been religiously defending that what's on the plate is more relevent than how've put it there. so what does it matter, who is behind the idea.
but at a times, he gets a rebelion spirit and urges everyone to pick up arms and fight.
but if you want to put words into action, you do need a face, at that, the who who've been asking for blogdai's email has right to do so.
who knows, the other guy might have a army ready to fight, and he just needs a general to lead them, and he sees blogdai fit, with his infinite wisdom at this blog.
grow some balls and give your email to the guy, if he clobber you to death we will consider you a matyr.
Having amassed an army of bees that have been trained in the honey pots of Wiltshire and bred on the islands of Greece where the honey is rich and the venom of a viper stirs -we are ready to shroud the peace cordial under the shadows of a glucose war that shall frighten the head of Mao and make Lenin turn in his grave. Prachanda is going to die being spread upon the soft gentle bosom of my crumpets.
The toaster is all set to 4 minutes.
Praised be peace in War but in peace it is a war to wage the right kind of peace. Honey.
If peace is achieved, it's great! But I have a few concerns that I write about in my Love Nepal Blog . Should we be witch hunting now or ensuring that the constitution assembly elections are free and fair?
Dear Anonymous,
Why do you need to jump into conclusions? I also don’t understand what is your problem is author wants blogdai’s email. I agree that this is an open platform where we need not to mask issues, but we should also understand that Nepal, yet is not a one party country. Until then its probably democracy and I guess author has the freedom of asking bd’s email. And for god sake lets stop the blame game. Don’t want that anymore.
Its looking 10,000 dead in here.
The smouldering bodies and the charcoaled remains of peace upon the sunset of tomorrow.
Cut the damned Gordian Knot.
You've got a pretty big number of readers here.
I used to write a blog myself where I have seen your comments too, but I have stopped since I have my own business to do.
Maoists=killers on the loose
Current Government=puppets controlled by India
King=Frustrated, helpless
You (WHoever reading this)=Could be anything: Confused, Puppets of puppets, dadada
I am writing again: I write what I see and experience...
My previous blog postings show how more ppl love the king and want him as a leader. People are getting angrier n angrier. ANything can Happen anytime soon.
Why do sum ppl believe that there is no other option? Yes there is. To all who hate king: If ever all the ammunitions of maoists are kept locked (they are for sure going to hide many), and all the real MArmy put in the 'camps' (they are bringing new ones to cover the no. they have specified. they will still hv secret military bases and ... for takeover or sth.), people will rise and finish them all. There arent many of them. But many are being fooled. They wont have a single supporter. Believe me. And dont keep fighting like kids.
Jai Nepal
Jai Shree Paanch
What good is "locked" when Ian Martin has given the Maoists the Keys to the locker?
Why "hide" when Girija has just authorized 100 million rupees to be given to the maoists as support?
-=blogdai
Who is this joker Nepali Blogger? What's your number in the Rayamajhi report? Let's start there.
Note that there are two posts from Nepali Blogger. Apparently both of us stopped writing for a while and are writing again. Someone alerted me of this in my blog Love Nepal.
I belive in being logical, not radical. However I respect and welcome all kinds of viewpoints in my blog.
Anonymous, Ok, lets be honest. Tell us what is your share out of millions allocated for the Maoist? Or how many of your cousins are in the SPAM?
Now, I am trying to play a blame game here, but seems like nothing get done here the right way. Yes, I agree that Nepali Blogger is a true Monarch sympathizer, but some of his points do hold substance and needs to be thought about. And yes, you can always criticize what you think he said was wrong, instead of acting like apes!
Are you the same Bhun hating Aashish I encountered some months ago on savenepal?
I have tried to stay away from Nepali politics for about a month now simply because i am too tired to give a fu**. But i just cant help it. I am drawn into it by forces that are beyond my controll.
Look, the blog sites are turning out to be competition among blogers as to who loves nepal more. More, but only in words and in comfort of their cosy rooms within the warmth of their kerosene or electric heaters. Does it matter if Mr. Pundit or Mr. Anon is really patriotic? Are they going to do anything to change anything in Nepal? I sincerely doubt it. For people like us, we say " even talking about it is a contribution". Bullshit.
However, Nepali politics is like Indian cricket. Everything is fixed even before the match begins. The only difference is with cricket the Indians dissappoint a few million of their fans where as in Nepal it has cost us thousands of lives. Nothing is going to change in Nepal. There will be another uprising because even if the maoist come to the mainstream people are not going to be happy. It will be the same brahimins in power and it will be the same old democracy. Total democracy in Nepal means, now all the political parties and their leaders can make a lot of money instead of just one.
Mr. pundit just because you think that you may not be able to defeat your enemy does not mean that you do not fight. A compromise that is based on all the wrong moral grounds will not deliver to the people. All revolutions end with bad compromises. I know people keep saying that the maoists are getting everything but in reality they have got nothing yet. Yeah, Yeah.. you will say they got 73 seats without even contesting in elections but in Nepal best things in life are free except for the people. Look, Koirala kept talking about the grand design and it was not a royal design but an Indian one. Now, prachanda gets a load of money and so does baburam and they will all start praising BP koirala and things will come back to normal incompetent and hopeless nepal. However, the people now have guns and Mr. Prachanda and bhattarai may have fixed the revolution with India but their cadres may not obilige. I Know, Mr. Pundit would again ask why would India support or encourage Maoists in Nepal when they are facing the same problem in their own country? I would say why not? After all, the maoists may not be real maoists after all. And lets not even talk about the hydropower resources of Nepal.
Mr. Prachanda after leading Nepali people for more than a decade with more than 15thousand dead bodies decides that the maoism (one party communist country) has no future in this world. What do you think, he just kinda woke up one morning and thought "i am tired"? Did he really think a one party communist country was possible 10 years ago?
Total Democracy in Nepal means all parties get equal opportunity to abuse and exploit the Nepali people. God, i dont even like the word anymore. What does it mean, Democracy? How will the people of Nepal have democracy? And what does democracy mean to the international community? Did the INternational community actually thought that we had democracy pre-king's take over? if not, why did they not even say a word? Why were advises to so hard to give then? I would say FCUK democracy if it only means equal opportunities for all parties to rule Nepal. I would say FCUK democracy if it only means freedom of speech and free press but it does nothing to better the quality of life of poor Nepali people. I would say FCUK democracy if it does not invest our tax money in the development of the nation. I would say FCUK democracy if it means waiting another 50 years for a decent leader to come along who actually cares about the country.
Blog Dai be sober that won't harm you.
B,
Everything in the world is relative. If you try going after an absolute ideal such as a "decent leader", you will end up with nothing, not even after 50 years.
The important thing is which direction you are headed in. King's takeover was a step in the wrong direction and we had to have a course correction. The course may not be fully corrected yet, but at least it is a step in the right direction. In time, a "decent leader" may just come along, but it should not hinge upon an individual so much.
KING IS THE RIGHT LEADER!
END of it.
Welcome back!
Hard to believe, am I actually extending a welcome to B or not to B?
(sorry, couldn't resist)
B, you should never give up on politics, you're ideas are as relevant as they are salient.
blogdai might have to disagree with your anon rebuttal however. The King's move was pointed in the right direction--eliminating Maoists and marginalizing Girija--but he was too bone-headed and ineffective to pull it off. A real people's movement with grass-roots origins with the same agenda would be something blogdai could rally behind. Jana Tantric anyone?
B. dammit, you are dead-on about the dead-in-the-water effectiveness of the term "democracy." Get rid of it, we've written here. The Jeffersonian version does not apply to Nepal. Those in the West are so happy to push their version of success in government on the rest of the world that they completely ignore the inherent cultural barriers preventing such a democratic form from taking hold in Nepal.
FCUK: Football Club of the United Kingdom?
-=blogdai
We've missed you here.
He speaks for Millions of Nepali- I had to post it even if you have read it before.
State of the Nation
BY GAUTAM G.C.
How did it come to this? Where is the Hindu Kingdom of the Himalayas? Where is that unique nation that was formed more than two hundred years ago through the fusion of the Tibeto-Burman and Aryan peoples, and the Hindu and Buddhist faiths? Where is "Sriman Gambhir Nepali", that old anthem that stirred Nepalis in the name of King and country?
Where is our sovereign and separate nation? Why has our capital shifted to New Delhi?
Why do Nepali leaders fly to New Delhi before they talk to each other? Why do foreign ambassadors based in Kathmandu fly south before coming back north to talk to Nepalis?
Why do Indian and American ambassadors try to tutor the Prime Minister? Why do our political leaders sit at the feet of Indian gurus for political and moral sustenance? Why do we think that we can trust the United Nations bureaucrats more than we trust each other?
PROFESSIONALISM
Why is there comprehensive dilution of professionalism in Nepali society? Our civil society "leaders" seem to have turned Nepal into "a nation on rent" while prostituting themselves to the glitter of gold from Scandinavians, the European Union (EU), the perfidious British, and their international non-governmental organization (INGO) fronts. Why have so many lawyers, journalists and others subordinated the fundamental ethics and norms of their profession to imperatives of party affiliation and political ideology?
Why do some senior most judges perform so very poorly when they lead initiatives like the National Commission on Human Rights (NHRC); and the High Level Investigation Commission (Raymajhi) that ignored due process and the rule of law, and seemed more like a dreaded "star chamber court" in its mission of persecuting those who opposed the political movement called the "Jana Andolan"; or that Interim Constitution Drafting Committee (Aryal) whose absurd efforts to produce an "interim" constitution produced a document that had no head or tail, that one member said was more an essay, and another said was to provoke the Prime Minister more than to craft the supreme law of the land?
These Commissions were not national; their composition was too obviously partisan and pre-disposed to the interests of the Seven Party Alliance and Maoist (SPAM) juggernaut.
One of the most negative contributions of the Raymajhi Commission could be that it will have made retroactive legislation a respectable part of Nepali law and society. It will also enshrine the undemocratic principle that it is a crime (rather than a basic human right) for anyone to oppose a political movement (the so-called "Jana Andolan"). How can it be a crime for those responsible for public safety and national security to act within the law, and existing rules and regulations, to do what is necessary to maintain peace and order! It embodies the death of common sense and the demise of civic decency and rule of law.
CORRUPTION
Why is it becoming so obvious that our senior most political leaders who have ruled the roost since the "restoration of democracy" in 1990, and who are back in the saddle under the misnomer of the "people's movement" or Jana Andolan, will now never be called to book for the billions of national funds that they salted away while in high office, often repeatedly? U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said a year ago that whereas past U.S. governments had put "security" above "democracy" in its foreign policy, the Bush administration would reverse the priority. Someone should have told her that that sort of simplistic approach would most likely result in neither being had! One of the results of this lopsided approach to "democracy" in the Nepali context is that meaningful efforts at the control of corruption have all but ceased. The same big fish are back in the saddle, under U.S., Indian and E.U. sponsorship, as local token of globally minted "democracy".
TERRORISM
Has terrorism triumphed? Has the same mad rush to "democracy" over "security" given the victor's laurel to Maoist insurgents who had comprehensively crossed to terrorism?
The Maoists did not go to the jungle to overthrow monarchy. They did so because they could find no meaningful space in the larger communist movement of Nepal. They were repelled by what they saw as the political bankruptcy of the dominant Nepali Congress Party and its rival Communist Party of Nepal-United Marxist Leninist (CPN-UML). The Maoists felt that they would always be losers in the system of parliamentary democracy and the 1990 Constitution in which it was embodied. They had to destroy both, as well as the corollary of constitutional monarchy. In ten years of sustained terror they sapped the will of political parties to move freely in the countryside, or to fight elections without the Maoist fiat. Only monarchy and the army stood between them and the capture of power.
Then the Maoists found themselves front and center of a bizarre convergence of interests. India could not tolerate the possibility of a resurgent Nepal with a determined monarch and a confident army emerging from a focused effort to face and finish terrorism, control corruption, and restore the parliamentary democracy that parties of the now Seven Party Alliance had fatally weakened in fourteen years of internal and intra-party feuding that witnessed as many changes of government, with parliaments that were never allowed to complete their full term because of the tendency of Prime Ministers to dissolve them at the drop of a hat. The last dissolution in May 2002 by Nepali Congress Prime Minister Sher Bahadur Deuba was the most harmful, because he, abetted by other major parties, failed to follow up with elections within six months, as required by the 1990 Constitution.
Thus the major political parties had a vested interest, a thoroughly egotistic and opaque interest, in line with Maoists and the Indians, in ensuring the failure of the February 2005 Royal Move to restore political health with elections to parliament and local government, to control corruption, and fight terrorism. The U.S. joined this weird coalition in line with its strategic tie with India (to contain China), as well as a global mission on "democracy".
The 1990 Constitution was one of the best in Asia! India, like the Maoists, did not like it.
It was an affirmation of Nepal as a sovereign and separate nation, and a Hindu kingdom, with a constitutional monarchy and a parliamentary democracy. In particular they felt that the two-thirds requirement for passing treaties and constitutional amendments would be a serious roadblock to their exploitation of Nepal's considerable water and hydro-electricity resources for Indian benefit, as well as the incorporation of millions of people of Indian origin as Nepali citizens, under newly crafted legislation that it had promoted for years.
JANA ANDOLAN
Thus was born the Myth of the Jana Andolan or "people's movement". It was a coalition that joined insurgency and terrorism with political profligacy, Indian interests, and the imperialism of U.S. neo-conservatism and Scandinavian, E.U., U.K socio-libertarianism.
India crafted the Seven Party Alliance of Congress and Communist parties with blatant interference in Nepali politics, then brokered their marriage with the Maoists (India and the U.S. have still not lifted the terrorist tag on the Maoists) while also posing as a front line state in the global war on terror! The Seven Party Alliance grabbed power in April 2006 through the politics of the street, with crucial force multiplier input of the Maoists, who mobilized thousands through fear and fiat, and with significant money and political support from the outside, mainly India. The "people's movement" tag was not fully real.
Nepalis are now mired in a paroxysm of self loathing, tearing down everything that is uniquely Nepali, destroying the very essence of the "brand" that makes us Nepal. We now have "conditional" and "guided" democracy that will only allow us to vote for a "constituent assembly", but not a parliament. People will not be allowed to decide on monarchy in a free, fair, and open referendum; this crucial decision will be left to the members of a "constituent assembly" chosen in a pervading climate of fear of Maoists.
In the meantime we are to have an "interim" government of Seven Parties and Maoists,
with an unelected and "interim" assembly of the same, under an "interim" constitution decided by the same. The once proud nation of Nepal has become an interim country!
How did we come to this? Where is the Nepali soul? Where is the Nepali spirit? Where is the Nepali patriot who will take us out of darkness, into the light of Nepal as a sovereign nation that is a Hindu Kingdom of the Himalayas, with our own constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy, and culture of constitutionalism and the rule of law? Who can seize the middle ground of peace and reconciliation, and make us again truly Nepali?
Yes, Bhudai, I am the same bahun hating Aashish. And you know what, I simply cannot stop it!
Guatam,
The Russians kicked out their kings a century ago. Today, you won't find anyone in Russia who thinks the Tsars were what made Russia unique.
Having faith in dinosaur institutions like the monarchy will only lead to confusion when you find out how irrelevant they are in modern life.
"The Russians kicked out their kings a century ago." Manan
Why do you use Russia as an example? Communism? Do you know what happened to the Russian people at the hands of Russian communism?
Why not mention Iran? The fall of the Shah was the result of Islamic Fundamentalists who swept to power.
Why not mention Iraq? The King of Iraq was toppled by the the Baathist party? Saddam Hussain's political party.
Why not mention the King of Afghanistan where he was forced to flee the country? Shariah law implemented and the Taliban came to power.
"Today, you won't find anyone in Russia who thinks the Tsars were what made Russia unique."
-Manan
Firstly, how do you know that?
Secondly, how is it logical to dismiss a large part of Russian history?
"Having faith in dinosaur institutions like the monarchy will only lead to confusion when you find out how irrelevant they are in modern life." -Manan
Are you a nihilist?
What is modern life to you? A sea tide of change? Perhaps you would support a political landscape that is thrown down as often as 'old' American skyscrapers.
Are you an atheist?
What makes having faith in an dinosaur institution irrelevant?
Do we somehow become better people and more peaceful by abandoning our faith in the institutions that have defined us?
Is not all form of institutional religion an example of a dinosaur institution? Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Jainism, Judaism.....
Are they irrelevant because they are old or are they irrelevant because they do nothing to reform?
Should we dismiss the Pope because he is not elected by all the Catholics in the world?
I am not a religious man and certainly no fan of monarchy but I do not see them as an irrelevance.
In the context of Nepal, if you can lose faith so quickly in your dinosaur monarchy because someone told you to do so -how quickly will you lose faith in Prachanda and Koirala?
A man who loses his faith so quickly is an irrational man and is not worth dealing with in life. How can you work with some who believes in so little?
In April, the King did not send his tanks into Kathmandu and roll over crowds of people. This happened in China. Do you remember?
His army did not fire bullets at children, mothers in random acts of genocide and suppression. They did not mow protestors down in sprays of bullets. This happens in the Congo.
Your King did not arrest journalists, protesters and keep them in detentions for a year and torture them endlessly until the desire to live was stolen from them. This happened in Iraq when Saddam Hussain was in power. This happens in Burma when the military junta suspects people of rebellion.
"will only lead to confusion when you find out how irrelevant they are in modern life."
A contradiction perhaps?
I am confused. If the King is so irrelevant why is he to blame for all of Nepal's ills?
If he is not irrelevant and is relevant then surely he is important to Nepali history and by comparison to Russian history?
How can King G be irrelevant when so many people protested in April? Do you really think people want rid of an irrelevant institution because it is irrelevant or because of perception?
Monarchy is not an obstacle to democracy as you can see from its differing forms across the world -UK, Spain, Denmark, Japan...
If monarchy is such a barrier to the development of Nepal then why?
Did Gyanendra start armed revolution in the West of Nepal?
Did he govern Nepal before 2001? Is he responsible and accountable for the injustices of Kings hundreds of years ago? Is this your justice? Should Greece demand reparations from Persia for the deaths of Spartans at Marathon? Should the Russians demand justice for the deaths of the millions lost in WWII? Should England demand money from the USA for declaring 'illegal' independence?
Did Gyanendra personally govern Nepal from 1990 onwards? Was it the King of Nepal who is responsible for the failure of economic development? Is he responsible for growing inequality since 1991? Is he responsible for the urban and rural divide in Nepal?
What did he do to be the cause of so much contempt? Because he did not pay tax for his money? Well, its only a recent development that Queen Elizabeth II had to pay tax. Is the tax that the King did not pay equal to all the ills in Nepal?
Was the King's move illegal when it is written in the constitution?
I am genuinely stumped to the answer to this question.
How did the present King stop democracy and development working in Nepal?
Did he draw up 5 year plan after 5 year plan? Did he borrow billions of rupees from the world bank and accumulate debt to the point that the Nepali Rupee is worthless?
Did he allow the literacy gap between the Valley and the rest of Nepal grow to disproportionate values so that there the literacy rate is is around 60% for girls in the Valley and 13% in Mugu. Even Dhading is an appalling 47%
So what did he do to deserve contempt? A few years of trying and failing to put things right? And the UML, NC, NC-D, Maoists do not deserve your contempt also?
The worlds a fucking joke when people like this govern.
Ian wrote:
Monarchy is not an obstacle to democracy as you can see from its differing forms across the world -UK, Spain, Denmark, Japan...
Well, so is the parliament and an elected PM in all those countries!
But in Nepal, an elected PM was removed by an accidental King for "incompetence". And here we are now even Blogdai saying that the King's Feb 1. action was a step in the right direction, but that he was incompetent.
I guess it would be poetic justice that the King should also be removed for incompetence.
Ian,
You talk about monarchy in one breath and then separate the individual of Gyanendra in another. I'm sorry to say that it comes off as a lame exercise to sweep the 238-year history of the monarchy under the carpet.
Which is precisely the point. You and others like you cannot get past your 238 years of Monarchy. You see G's actions as just a continuation in a long line of autocratic cruelty.
Sweeping 238 years of Monarchy under the carpet is exactly what you all MUST do in order to move forward.
Are some of you so blind that you cannot realize that your incessant and pointless grudge against the monarchy is the ring through your noses that Girija and Prachanda used artfully to lead you around to do their bidding last April?
Remembering, worrying about, or even trying to make a point about Nepal's monarchal history does nothing; you hear me? NOTHING to alleviate the problems Nepal faces today and tomorrow and in the future.
Drop your back-water tribalism and cheap pseudo-populist attempts at finding a rallying issue and move forward and save your country.
-=blogdai
(Ian, I'd like a bit of a word with you if you don't mind, e-mail me at blogdai@nepalimail.com thanks)
What turned us into this? What turned us into believing that our war against our own brothers and sisters would actually bring victory to us? What makes prachanda smile and sleep well at night while he goes on giving his victory speeches? WHo have the maoists defeated? Who are dead? Do lives have values or significance? Are nepali lives more significant than those of dogs and rats?
When did we obtain this nirvana? This iternal bliss? this numbness.
Blogdai,
I think you do not understand what is going on here. This country is slowly turning into an unmanagable state. Everyone has failed the people. Stolen from them or killed them. Now, there is total anarchy and i do not believe that any of the spam losers have control over things or the people they claim to represent. Of course, people like you and us have been saying that the deal between the SPA and M is not a good news for Nepal but these voices fall on deaf ears. People just keep repeating the same word democracy over and over again as if the state of Nepal has been any different for past 100 years. King was right and i believe that he was trapped into this situation and was part of the plan. I blame the king for what he did not do rather than what he did. I think he did not want to be a dictator but at the same time wanted to have all dictatorial authorities. Now, if we are not careful we will become bhadurs serving at the gates of the almighty. Human lives do not have any value, but instead power and money is what matters. If it is in the interest of nations like, us, uk and india west will not even lose a night's sleep over 100 thousand nepali dead bodies. We are but meat. There are people (highly placed) and nations making money (or political gains) out of war and there are people (highly placed) make money (or political gains) out of peace. But the saddest thing is there are people making money (or political gains) out of both. These revolutions have nothing to do with the people or democracy. We are back to square 1 but much weaker and vulnerable.
In practical terms- Nepal has proved that " end justifies the method or means." This place will be hotbeds for all the radicals and fringe lunatics in days to come. The way people go after Monarchy is quiet ludicrous. It just speaks their complexes and class envy, not an inch deep or in the interest of the country. The are happy to be headbanged by foreign powers and tutored on fine art of governing, no self respect lost here only badge of honor of duplicity worn with pride in being slotted as "loktrantrik."
It goes to show the total disconnect of people to this country- cannot understand why is this so, though?
We have all spoken our words and have seen them disappear in vain. Our voice although identical has failed to reach the ears of the people. We have people like Manan and Prisim who thinks new broom always sweeps clean and that we should forget about the very institution that gave this land a name. And we have people like Ian, blog dai and many others with closet full of knowledge and leadership waiting to be utilized. Let us united our voice for a common cause let us put our thoughts together to form a formidable force. Lets us join hands to save Nepal and its very roots, before it’s late!
Savenepalnow!
Author
Sweeping 238 years of Monarchy under the carpet is exactly what you all MUST do in order to move forward.
Blogdai, that is exactly my point too. Rather than going about how King is the greatest (as Ian seems to harp on), it's time to put the past to bed. Let's forget about the monarchy, for good. I'm not a republican but I am getting rather tired of this constant harping about how monarchy is good by giving examples of Denmark and Japan!
Let the people decide the worth of monarchy in the CA election and settle this issue. If the country is heading to anarchy, let's hear ideas about which political party is best suited to address it. But this constant tirade on glorious Gyanendra will of course not inspire anyone. We heard the glory singing till the cows came home.
Anon wrote:
It goes to show the total disconnect of people to this country- cannot understand why is this so, though?
I have only this to say to you, go get new glasses.
To a person wearing cracked glasses, the world appears cracked.
Ian,
You went on for so long I figured you were confused.
Here's my position again. Refute it succinctly, if you can.
The Nepalese monarchy is an outdated institution, clearly held in disdain by the younger generation. Have you heard of Paras? He ran a popular singer down because he was drunk. Daddy has not apologized. Prachanda apologized for the Madi incident, even though he could argue he was doing it for his 'cause'.
But why won't Gyanendra do? His lout of a son kills somebody for no reason but he won't, because he holds himself higher than the rest of us. That is why he is irrelevant. In this century, we cannot afford to have anybody who, by, lineage and not accomplishment, holds himself higher than the rest of society.
Guys.. I thought you could argue bit better than that. Can you compare Mr PK Dahal's PLANNED murder of 40 bus passengers in Madi incident with Paras'? If Paras is to be hanged for his murder, 40 of Mr Dahal and his accomplished should face firing squad as well.
and, BTW those who believe Mr Dahal's "apology" are fcuking* kidding themselves..
(* just to make the point)
Agreed that sweeping 238 years of monarchy under the carpet is necessary. Where exactly are, however, those people trumpeting G.'s accomplishments? Funny, all we get here is G. Bashing. In fact, it's the constant finger-pointing at G. that has proven to be the biggest distraction and impediment to Nepal's political progress. God, now Manan is comparing Paras's drunken murder with one isolated Maoist murder as if they were in the same league.
Apologies? Maoists good, G. bad because a Maoists apologized where G. did not? I'm sorry but I seem to remember Prachanda issuing multiple apologies over the last year; every time one of his constantly out-of-control cadres committed an atrocity. Let's see, there was an apology for extorting money during a ceasefire, and apology for murdering a journalist, an apology for killing a busload of civilians; I believe there were at least a dozen others but they don't come to mind just yet.
Manan has just demonstrated, perhaps, the most classic example of the "Fundamental Disconnect." This broken record, this repetitive drum-beat, this constant, unnecessary focus on the actions of a deposed King as if they somehow justify Maoist atrocities.
This is a pro-Girija, pro-Maoist stance and it is exactly the tactic that was used during the SPAM revolution of last April. Keep simple minds focused on the bad old Monarchy and maybe people will be too distracted to notice their country is crumbling at the hands of Girija and Prachanda.
Elections to a CA? Let me tell you right now, they will never be held. Party cadres are already planning a delay past the planned June 2007 date.
Sweep it all away; all 238 years of Monarchy and everything you think about G. and Paras. Let it go for God's sake. Listen, nothing G. or any Royal has done justifies the corruption of Girija or the constant, murderous atrocities committed by the Maoists: NOTHING! What Nepal has on its plate right now constitutes the gravest threat to a secure future.
Get over this childish obsession with G., all of you, and start working the problem as it exists now.
-=blogdai
Then question is not whether or not we need monarchy. The question is why the rush to throw it out now.
Like it or not, monarchy is an institution that has been around for a while and has deep roots in some facets of the Nepali society. Abruptly rooting it out will create more problems rather than solve any.
Then only reason why the politicians and the maoists are directing the brunt of their assault on monarchy is because they want to dilute their own mistakes. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Had the political parties done their job in the post-1990 scenario, monarchy would probably have been rendered redundant by now. Nepal's experiment with democracy failed not because of the palace, but because of the complete ineptness of the politicians. Monarchy is not better or worse than the Panchayat days -- it's the same. What changed was the system and the system failed us.
What scares me now is that the very people that deceived us before are reemerging as heroes without any introspection and are bent about talking about only one thing - abolishing monarchy. Prove yourselves first and then come argue the point!
Nepal is now Girija's and Prachanda's new Gone-a-tantric. They are hell bent on destroying this country and that is what they are paid to do. Like I said, these leaders have obtained some kind of enlightenment and they are not affected by things like, sorrow, patriotism, guilt and so on. Of course, power is an altogether different matter. Nepal has already turned into an undeclared indian state and we just do not know it yet. The SPA leaders thanked India and their citizens for the success of the overthrow of the Kings power before they thanked their own. Is it not funny that all the leaders now seem to go to bangkok or the US for their treatments rather than India. The SPAM realizes that the King enjoys as much support in Nepal (still) as all the spam put together and that is their hesitation, spam's and India's, to declare Nepal a democratic republic. The municipal election held earlier proves it too. With all the physical threats around 25% turn out means that those who did go out to vote did support the king and that was not in the whole of Nepal yet. So, yes the CA won't be held any time soon. I agree with BD, as it won't benefit the maoists or the SPA. They would want the King out before that happens.
But yes again, enough of the king and his drunken son who allegedly ran over a singer. Was the singer drunk as well? Does anyone have proof of that? Well, did it happen during the king's dictatorial rule? What was democracy doing then, if there was enough evidence of this murder? Well, i think this is the same road block syndrome of today. One who runs over someone is always wrong and should be punished without due process and that is democracy in Nepal.
People like manan are the ones blocking the streets as soon as something happens. If prachande apologiged for the madi incidents, what compensations did he give them? after all, he has been extorting millions of rupees from us, has he not? Why not give them some compensations? Sorry will not bring the sorrow to an end(neither would money but at least it is something for the family). Sorry is a hard word to say, only to an honest and dignified person but for others they use it as a tool.
Once again, (in your face manan) fcuk loktantra, fcuk gone-a-tantra and fcuk all tantras that are used to get some ass holes in power and some assholes out of it.
Once again, I repeat, there are a couple or so (bhusiya is always there) going around the internet doing blahs blahs and SPAMming the web. Just make sure that all of you just ban their IPs so that they will keep their mouth shut and only their assholes open in their homes and SPAMs offices.
the only IP address they should band is anon's (above). useless comments
Nepali history does not begin in 1991 but the present political crisis owes much to political oligarchs like GP Koirala, Madhev Nepal, Dahal et al but some of us choose to see 238 years of monarchy as the greatest hurdle to our future.
I don't think any one is claiming that the King or institution of Monarchy is perfect or functional in its present state but we rather lament the myopic analysis that credits the King with all the ills of Nepal.
Reform of the monarchy is necessary but so to is it necessary to reform the democratic process in Nepal. There is a greater need to rid ourselves of political oligarchs such as Koirala, Deuba, Dahal and Madhev Nepal who proclaim to represent the people but are fundamentally disconnected from their reality in the same way that the King has been accused of. At least the purpose of Kingship in parliamentary monarchy is not to govern per se but to act as a figurehead for our unique identity.
Pushpa Kumar Sarki,
So how do you propose reforming democracy? By suspending it as Gyanendra did or by launching an armed rebellion as Janatantrik is planning to do?
Repeating old formulas suggests that there are you guys have no new ideas to offer. Simply bitching and moaning will not change anything.
A good beginning would be to look at problem. Would it not?
In my eyes, the democratic experiment has failed and the opportunities of the people's movement have been squandered through incompetent policies and an absence of leadership that have weakened state infrastructure and given political oligarchs such as Pushpa Komala Dahal, GP Koirala, and Madhev Nepal the political leverage to exploit the ensuing social unrest.
The people have been exploited enough.
Don't you think that it is time for the politicians of our country to stand up and shoulder the responsibilities of governance rather than persist with political smokescreens to divert our attentions away from the real problem of economic development?
Our policies from 1991-2005 were not governed by the King but elected representatives whose mandate had expired and who could not be re elected because Deuba had dissolved parliament in 2002.
We have faced empty rhetoric after empty rhetoric since 1990 that our politicians are going to reform the economy, the education system and develop our nation towards prosperity.
When faced with this challenge they have been found wanting.
For me it is not a question of morality, of who is right and who is wrong but it is a question of end product and where is it?
I think a good start to tackling the problem is by facing it head on and admit the failures of our leadership and for fellow citizens to put pressure not on the King to reform but to try to do something to protest the coalition of political oligarchs that are rapaciously dividing power to their own egotistical benefit.
Even Maoist cadres will be disappointed when they learn that they are no better off now than they were in 1996.
The social and economic unrest of our country comes from the state policies and if you recall our government policies are drawn up by the council of Ministers led by the First Minister our nation and not by the Head of State (the King)
The erosion of state power was complete in 2005 when the King seized control in attempt to restore law and order. He is no hero. He failed but at least he failed doing something rather than failed doing nothing but throw us empty promises.
Who dares challenge the political parties to reform?
Who dares to challenge our political parties to become democratic and accountable to the people?
I don't claim to have the answers to our problems. If I did, I would be a fortunate man but I am not so clever as Pushpa Komal Dahal.
I do claim to face the problems head on and not to fall for the political smokescreen that puts the King as the source of all our ills.
I would rather have faith in the political parties ability to govern our country than to have no faith in their 'art' of governance.
Absolute democracy?
More appropriately; an absolute disaster of management and policies from our peoples movement in 1990.
It is time that we find a solution to fundamentally reconnectthe people to the glimmer of hope that our late King Birendra offered us.
Absolutely well-said, sir. We beg you offer more if you can.
-=BD
I don't have an obsession with Gyanendra. I'm just saying that he's a relic.
Now I think Prachanda's an idiot. He makes stupid comments all the time. That said, one cannot deny that the Maoists came into existence because of the state of the nation. Prachanda has killed people on his orders, so has Gyanendra. Both have blood on their hands; the difference is that Gyanendra represents a very conservative order whereas Prachanda at least represents some sort of progress. Mind, I'm not saying Prachanda is progressive, just that the movement he's led has brought more issues on the table than were previously discussed.
And lets face it, something like Maoism had to happen in Nepal. Its happened in almost every third world country. Look at Latin America, look at Africa, Sri Lanka. Class-based uprisings are the norm in most underdeveloped countries. What makes Nepal so special?
But now that we know that we're like the rest of them, we can move forward.
Forget blood manan, it is thinner than water. Are you saying Mr. Koirala does not have blood on his hand? so who gives a sht abt Nepali lives and who gives a sht who you think should be blamed.
The thing is now, we need to move on but we do not know where to. Where are we headed Manan? What did the Maoists achieve from this struggle, except power? i know, you have said a lot of things were put on the table because of the maoists atrocities, but what has been addressed? How will it be addressed now? What would the maoist cadres do once they realize that they wont win the election free and fair? or let just say what if they do not win any seats or major portion of seats in the coming election? Mind you manan, i think the problem is far from over even if you only talk about peace. Where will Mr. Baburam Bhattarai be once Mr. yadav and Mr. Gajurel demand positions in the party? Look, with all the evidence it can be assertained that Mr. Prachnda and Mr. Bhattarai were bought and used like pawns by india but is yet to b seen is whether their cadres will simply forget all the histories and lay down their arms. What can the maoist party give their cadres now? How are they going to satisfy them all who still carry guns? We have less grains than mouths to feed. Still a long way to go i would say.
Manan and Prism are stereotypical of kinds that are at the helm now. They speak and retract without even shrug of a shoulder. The lump up the blame without even knowing the real story, they tear up historical references with one sided grudge filled rhetoric. To tell you as it is- these buggers are spineless nincompoops.
The uncertainty in Nepal is so thick,you can cut it with a knife, how the killers of babies and women get the glory is unheard of and unprecedented, and how the un-mandated representative proclaim and issue statues in the name of people (aka Communists style) is harbinger of things to come, not good in any case. But the people like Manan and Prism still believe in halo of dying stars is quite confounding maybe they have no principle and will accept anyway the chip may fall. Their kind is quite expert at this.
Manan the conflict in Sri Lanka is not a struggle based on Maoism. And I am not really sure which African country's war is a result of Maoism either.
Some good discussions going on here. Will comment later.
No matter how much we try, Manan and Prism will not realize until Maoist will knock in their doors asking for food and bed. This is sad but is the reality! Its just seems like we Nepali have lost our Nationality, have lost our souls and every little thing that made us proud to be one. We don’t seem to realize or respect things until our own ass is on fire! We are divided and so we will fall!
In the bigger picture, India has already succeeded in trashing the only institution that stood against it. They had bought our politicians and have now purchased the Maoist. They have taken our Mechi and our Mahakali. But we simply don’t seem to realize, because our ass in not on fire!
WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TAKING ABOUT AUTHOR? "India has already trashed the only institution that stood against it" are you out of your mind. You think the Monarchy stood up against India? Give me a break!
You sure are a victim of the Panchayat pseudo-nationalism... how naive are you?
Bhudai,
I never stated that the present-day conflict in Sri Lanka was Maoist in origin. But there has been a Maoist uprising in Sri Lanka.
Also, note that my comments about conflicts in Africa and elsewhere is sandwiched between my earlier comment about "something like Maoism" and my later one about "class based uprisings". If I wanted to state that there were African Maoist conflicts, I would have said so directly.
Would you deny that there have been class-based conflicts in Africa?
I think the conflicts in Africa aren't really based on class-conflict. It's more about ethnic/tribal hostilities - take sudan for example. Conflicts in Congo for example aren't based on class issues... its just some power hungry rebels causing meyham. Much like our situation i think.
I agree with the views here. I don't think it is right to blame monarchy for the majority of the problems. They certainly didn't help in that they didn't bother develop the country - they were too busy amassing wealth, exploiting people and killing each other. But its not right to blame the current problems on them. The problem is our political leaders are sub human.
Well Bhudai Pundit, you can shout your lungs out, but you cannot change some facts. Well all right, its lok tantra – democracy and a state of freedom or what ever you call this mess. I am a Nationalist and you don’t have rights to test my conscience.
And remember, everyone is a victim here! Its just sad that we are not patriot.
I kinda agree with mr. pundit in the sense that no institutions have been successful in demonstrating its loyalty to the people. Whether it be the institution of monarchy or the democratic ones.
However, i still believe that the king's move in feb 2005 was the right one. I also agree that a lot of mistakes followed that step and the king failed to satisfy the need of the people.
But i do believe that India has a grand design for Nepal and that Mr. Prachanda, Mr. bhattarai and Mr. GPK are the pawns of our southern state. It is working perfectly for them. They have enough political leverage in Nepal since none of the eight parties would dare speak against india as India has played a crucial part in bringing them back to power. The April uprising was, i would say, also sponsored by India. Why else, specially if you guys think all Nepalis want the king out, would the demonstrators not enter the palace? Why would they stop their demonstration before they got what they wanted (i.e. a republic nepal)? After all, they had bravely broken the curfew, had not they?
I also believe that the (then RNA) NA were being successful in crushing the maoists and their strengths. I know people like Mr. Pundit would say, BS, and that there were instances of maoist attacks even during the direct rule of the King. Agreed, but it only one year that the king got. I think when India realized that the maoists were on the back foot and the seven parties were being marginalized by the king and their lack of popular support, India thought why not bring them together and fight the king. After all, India and SPA could not force the Nepalis out on the streets but the Maoists could.
The most sorry part of it all is that, none of the leaders seem to have a clue about politics and administration. They are talking about CA within a year but i do not think it is possible. The UN body to monitor and manage the weapons are yet to arrive and even that would take some time. And even then a lot of other things need to be decided upon before we even start thinking about the CA. And we all know Mr. GPK and how he runs Nepal as his family business!
If Mr. Prachanda and Bhattarai hails Mr. GPK as a great leader (a presedential canditate), then we know at what level these maoist leaders stand and what their standards are. The person who is considered by most of Nepali people to be resoponsible for the down fall of democracy and most of the problems this country is facing today (except now it is also a fashion to blame the king for the failure of democracy by the political activists), is considered a great leader of Nepal by the maoists leaders then we know what Mr. Manmoham was saying when he opined Mr. GPK to be the greatest south asian leader living today.
As far as the insititution of Monarchy being outdated is concerned, i think the SPA is even more outdated and needs revamp of the urgent kind. We can blame the insitution of Monarchy for what they did not do, but my fear of SPA comes from what they can not do. They are incompetent, ignorant and pure evil. The problem is they can not work in the interest of the nation even if their life depended on it. So, manan and pundits who think the democracy needs time to mature, go on wait another 20 years. But it is no more like 30 years ago when the whole world was moving slow. Now, for every backward step we take the developed and developing countries are taking like hundred steps forward. The world is talking about Nuclear weapons, space, internet and we in nepal are still talking about roads, water, school, telephone, electricity and so on. I am not saying that Nepal has no prospect of development, specially if you cosider the hydropower and tourism industry, but instead that the leaders are not capable enough to lead us forward. Street agitations are what they are good at and that is all they will always be.
Author, it's interesting to note that you equate nationality with monarchy. That's a Panchayati hogwash and for 3 long decades, we nearly believed it too singing jaba samma Nepal hunchha, tyaha raja rani hunchha, etc. Sounds like you are still stuck on the Panchayati era thinking.
You ask, why the rush to get rid of monarchy. I ask you why ask why? The relevance of monarchy is being tested and I still think it is not a foregone conclusion. The fact that you put it in terms of "getting rid of monarchy" suggests a defeatist attitude on your part.
I've had discussions with Blogdai on monarchy many times. We have disagreed about its relevancy but we agree the need for having it tested. I would argue that the relevancy of monarchy should be tested every 10 years. Why? Primarily because it represents a huge resource allocation in a country that has to count its pennies. I think monarchy is still necessary in Nepal but not for the reasons you cite. Nepalis can define nationality with or without monarchy, so let's leave the nationalism out of it.
When Feb. 1 happened, many people here who gave the king the benefit of doubt said that the king is risking his crown for the country, that it's going to be waar ki paar. Well, the king took a bad risk and in so taking it, he has put his crown on the line. I think it would be a disaster for the Parliament to declar Nepal a republic, but it's fair that the monarchy survives only on people's express mandate. After the election, if Nepal becomes a republic, the person most responsible for bringing about the republic will be none but the king himself.
Where is the 'class conflict' in Nepal?
Between 1991 and 2006 -the gap between the have and have nots has increased at a disproportionate level when compared to the last 200 years where the gap was a constant.
I would love to explain me where the class conflict is in Nepal. Looks more like a conflict between the haves and have mores to be honest.
Pushpa,
Is that why there was no Maoist rebellion before 1990?
The Maoist movement started in 1994 but started its bloody and violent movement on February 13, 1996 -9 days after submitting 40 demands to Prime Minister Deuba.
Curiously, it was also Deuba who caused the constitutional crisis in 2001 when he dissolved parliament and 'forgot' to hold an election.
Good question! why was there no Maoist rebellion before 1991?
Rising inequality between 1991-2006.
Partly explain by:
a. Lack of leadership and strong government with rampant corruption and power shifts between PM to PM
b. Armed Rebellion between powerful elites who act more like political barons than political leaders.
Nepal: a feudal socio political balloon floating into the 21st century. pop
I've always touted my belief that the Nepali people are politically astute; especially at the rural level.
The very points you mention about government corruption are dead-on.
People seeing such a distancing between elected (?) officials and the citizens they are charged to represent, feel their voices are no longer heard in Kathmandu.
Hence, more receptivity to alternative voices such as Prachanda's . Remember, the Maoists were the big heroes and spoke "for the people" in the early years before they turned brutal.
-=blogdai
Why now, you condescending snob - holding the castle all by yourself even after your master G has gambled Nepal away, you still attempt to claim that it was an unfair throw of dice? Get a fucking life and put your reality glasses on cause the force is sooo against you that no matter how many disgruntled and spoiled expat brats you manage to gather - sucking each other's dick - will remain the only highlight of your pesudo-political career.
Moron!
Your caption says 'grammer practice for epat. Nepalis'. Let us hear you, blog-dhedubadar, utter a sentence in Nepali to provide any solace to larger Nepali populace you claim to speak for. Atleast show them that you know a word or two of politics and society you calim to be an expert of.
Idiot!
-Monarchy crusher; blogfart killer!
Well, Mr. Monarchy crusher.
I have seen people with brilliant spoken Nepali selling this country. So, Mr. Crusher it is not how many words of Nepali one knows it is instead how much of Nepal does one care about. Instead of spitting fire why not spit some sense and discuss maturely about your thoughts on democracy and how the ruins of the palace can actually build a new better Nepal. By the way, where are u blogging from, The US?
Agree with B on this one.
Using foul language does not advance your argument, only diminishes your credibility.
Despite our differing political orientation, I still wish Blogdai keep writing rather than go underground and plot another violent rebellion. We need more dialogue, not more killings. So Mr. Killer, you might as well get some life.
I agree with the above posts. Anonymous is an idiot. Stop using foul language and stop the foam ozzing from your mouth. Come up with some arguments... I would rather have Blogdai (with no knowledge of Nepali) then a angry moron like you spit fire...
blogdai,
so sad, king has to pay tax too, what has become of nepal. all these 'dhaka topi' wearing SPAMers should be shot dead.
how dare they as HM to pay tax? this country belongs to him, who ever dares to raise their head in front of HM, they should be decapitated, period.
low life insects.
Anonymous,
Yes, we have brought the king down to level of a civilian. Congratulations, to the people. However, we need to be careful leaders like GPK does not climb up the same ladder and delude himself into believing that Nepal belongs to him. Now, that the king had to pay tax, does koirala pay taxes anymore is the question we should also ask frequently. The ruins of the palace is not a personal victory of the anonymous or any one in particular but instead it is something that the entire nation has to go through.
By the way, what are your guys thoughts on,Ex indian gurkhas monitoring the arms management and pranchanda's support for it? Do you guys still think that prachanda is the nationalist of them all? Do you guys still think the SPA have what it takes to prevent what ever designs the international community may have for us that would not be in our national interest?
B and Bhudai, you two are the two sides of the same coin--khota sikka. dime a dozen, and we would pee on your two cents.
you two have mastered the art of stupidity. why don't you guys take that intitial of yours 'B' and shove it up your asses.
sniveling low life maggots...SPAMers are nothing but the mirror image of you people, bloody, you maggots measure the wind, and jump into the wagon, which suits you the best.
calculative bastards, Nepal has always been under the auspicious king, and is a Hindu nation.
jai shree panch, jai shree pech
Anon:
your comment is not worthy of my response.
Blogdai - please inform this lunatic that this is a forum for discussion.
How many nutjobs come to this blog? Blogdai, you should seriously consider
bhudai's solution.
Ban the crazies from coming here, or have them take it over.
Dear lunatic,
This is a forum of discussion.
Clean it up, make some sense or you're banned.
-=BD
by the way,
wait and see, thats my attitude right now. hopefully we will see some progress here. but i am not betting on it.
besides when a mere 200000 can decide the future, and present, of 20000000 what kind of country are we talking about?
it is hopeless to even hope for a country as such, but do i have a choice?
You have a choice. In fact, you have many choices.
You can activate, instigate, conversate, delegate and castigate...and that's just one suffix!
Those who are in power or who pretend to power are banking on the fact that you will do nothing; in fact, the source of their power is the knowledge that nepalis will do nothing.
the most fundamental necessity of a democracy is the voices, both individual and collective, of dissent. Until you develop these voices, you are at the mercy of corrupt politicians and murderous gangs of roving Maoists.
-=blogdai
-"the most fundamental necessity of a democracy.....corrupt politicians and murderous gangs of roving Maoists".
In all this you are presuming that we (not me specifically but those in Nepal) are living in a functioning democracy that you have room for dissent. It is already becoming a tyrranical regime. Anything quoted against republicanism gets labeled a monarchist/royalist and so on. And so what even if one is? The Maoist rhetoric and propaganda machine has officially intoxicated the masses. It is a case of mass hysteria!
Nice. And I'll admit that the crazies seem to come in all political flavors.
Between the Maoist maniacs and the Monarchist misfits, us moderates should not be crushed.
"The Maoist rhetoric and propaganda machine has officially intoxicated the masses. It is a case of mass hysteria!"
So Maoism is our new national drink now, and its official, eh? You know, you're not making sense.
Also, you should not use loaded words like "tyrannical" unless there's good reason to. Don't devaluate words with deep meanings, or when the real thing happens, you would not even know it.
you say activate, probably means you can be active. sorry not me. as much as i love my country, i know my priiorities.
you say instigate. i dont know what it means. google says it means provoke or stir up. not me. i am in a foreign land. probably your blog can do that better than me.
you say conversate, thats something you can probably do with intellectual people, meaning with some intellect. i think i have some, i cant say for sure about nepalese people though. they are sheeps lead by the wolves.
delegate
you mean find a representative. people like you who do have brain matters, keep yourself to the blog. people like dinesh wagle who think they have brain matters and ruin the country are still stuck to the blog. you cancel out. so who are we to delegate? SAME OLD CORRUPT POLITICIANS?
and castigate
you hurt my little brain. i had to go back and search google again for the meaning. Censure severely. indians did that against british. shall we do it against ourselves? against politicians? well, to do that we need new politicians, better politicians. do we have that. if we do, how do we know?
with all the definitions dealt with,
lets deal with opinions
...and that's just one suffix!
Those who are in power or who pretend to power are banking on the fact that you will do nothing; in fact, the source of their power is the knowledge that nepalis will do nothing.
and aint that right? who will do any thing? fight against a gun? as much as i want to, i would not dare. forget that fight against hooligans?
forget fight against anything. i believe i am a true nepali. as long as i am safe why should anything matter?
another problem
the most fundamental necessity of a democracy is the voices, both individual and collective, of dissent. Until you develop these voices, you are at the mercy of corrupt politicians and murderous gangs of roving Maoists.
you are right. yes you are right. i think that was bob marley. but the fact remains. who is supposed to be our righteous leader. you. blogdai.com.
find us a leader. a true leader. who will do or die for what he believes.
who will do or die for his country and its stupid people. even though he will gain nothing. some body will probably come up and say he is anti-democaratic. and still he dont give a shit.
i know it cant be you blog dai. and if there is really some one who can do it, not me, but a lot of nepalese will support him.
and words will always be words, in blog or some where else, until it becomes a voice, like you said. and what you have in your blog is just mere words.
How about just eliminating the "Fundamental Disconnect?"
Does it take much courage to simply ask tough questions of your government?
Does it take much courage to document and report Maoist atrocities to the World?
-=blogdai
Idiot Manan!
Moderates??? What are those - people who blow wherever the wind blows? Those whose decision-making ability is so shot that they cannot, even with open eyes see the the atrocities of Maoists, their propaganda, threats and such. Denial is not only the river in Egypt but the elixir that idiots like you bath with everyday.
Misfits and maniacs re???? Damn what is YOUR position? Is it getting romped by right and the left?
It is tyrrany already. Just the other day RPP got attacked by unemployed, directionless Nepali party activists, simply for organizing a metting.
Come to think of it a true communist dictartorship is exactly what people like you need to get your mind made. Few years in labor camp - bro - should make you despise the word moderates!
Till then, enjoy your damn freedom while it lasts! Idiot!
Go gather some spine and get back to me.
freeyoursense so we meet again uh.
I will say that being a moderate doesn't necessarily mean not having resolve. Take the issue of the monarchy for example. I certainly don't belive in having an absolute monarch but I still feel Nepal is better off with having a ceremonial/constitutional monarch. I don't buy the Gagan Thapa horse sh*t but I also don't think Tulsi Giri has the right idea either.
This doesn't mean I am going where the wind blows but this has been my belief all along.
Yes we meet again, Pundit. And we will continue to meet until the truth prevails and this haze of momentary peace is unveiled for what it truly is - an illusion.
Let us not get caught up in definition now. We have a lot of work to do. I for one subscribe to the idea that both forces at present are motivated by their self-interests to govern and loot Nepal and Nepalis with no particular interest to solving the country's genuine defecit.
In absense of well-informed populace, a small percentage of activists, corrupt politicians and the terrorist group is holding Nepal and Nepalis hostage. Going forward, the collusion will create a larger force that will dig its root further deep into every aspect of Nepali existence.
Therefore, I agree with blogdai's proposal to have/create a force (political/social/para-military/academic - whatever) that checks runaway corruption and murderous rebels; I believe in Dr. Marks' prognostication that super-left's momentum in Nepal (and in South Asia) needs to be addresed and challenged immediately.
Forget left, right and the moderates. Let's call ourselves the realists - driven by pragmatic approach to solving crisis.
I am in.
Mr. nonsense, sorry I mean freeyoursenses, do you consider yourself to be part of "well-informed populace"? If so, do share with us your enlightenment. So far I only see fire, no light.
If you are outside of the well-formed populace, then I agree with Blogdai that you practice your English here.
Freeyoursenses,
You are beginning to get on my nerves. Do me the favor or thinking for a while before posting your messages.
You'd be doing yourself a favor too. That is, if you want to post here, you'd better make some sense. Your brain appears to be a repository of fecal matter. Spill it over too many times here, and we'll flush it away once and for all.
Get the idea? Shut up, and listen to what wiser people than you have to say.
getting on your nerves? already? i am just heating up. get ready to get that nerves of yours busted!
now, let's attend you - idiot! i'll let YOUR brains do some work for a change.
go find elements in my posts that you want to refute. else keep getting romped by the right and the left. blow with the wind and so on...
the most funny part is, the whole movement doesn't make sense and the deluded moderates like you hang by the thread hoping that shit will be ok. grow up idiot! be a man. you still need your mother to tell you that shit will be OK???
like i said earlier, go gather some spine and get back to me. say you are a Maoist that you just want to end monarchy and feudals once and for all. that way at least i can have some decent debate with you.
else keep getting whored by the right and the left. piss off!
freeyoursenses, you write:
"getting on your nerves? already? i am just heating up. get ready to get that nerves of yours busted!"
Don't keep "heating up" so much, kid. Bad for your system. It occurs to me you might need to take a few anger-management classes.
( Trust me, if you keep "heating up", I won't be the one who will be "busted" ).
Once again, may I suggest some anger management classes?
Issues idiot, issues. Bring up the issues. If you can't then don't waste space like you do with time in making your mind.
Let me help you if you can't find a point of entry.
Here, refute this:
"I for one subscribe to the idea that both forces at present are motivated by their self-interests to govern and loot Nepal and Nepalis with no particular interest to solving the country's genuine defecit."
Go on, get to work now. Mommy will be disappointed if you don't do your homework. She'll spank your hairy brown ass. Get to work!
freeyoursenses ji,
good to see, at least someone has rolled the sleeves, and ready to get hands dirty,
but before that few questions:
country's genuine defecit
What are they?
Therefore, I agree with blogdai's proposal to have/create a force (political/social/para-military/academic - whatever) that checks runaway corruption and murderous rebels;
How do you propose to do that?
no ranting please, if possible, put the answers in bulleted forms.
thank you,
"Issues idiot, issues. "
Your brains ( or lack thereof )?
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you a prototype of today's misdirected Nepali youths, and typical reflection of 'party supporters' who even fail to identify genuine issues. For one such, apparently my brains occupy bigger space in his than REAL issues confronting 250 million other people. Ego-centric games are the gift of our corrupt leaders. Apparently it is pretty contagious and flows from the top.
And we have put faith in such morons. God save!
Good,
A little decency goes a along way. Your wishes shall certainly be fulfilled. Watch.
By country’s genuine deficit I mean the following:
-Poverty
-Illiteracy
-Lack of development
-Mis-development
-Unchecked corruption
-Weak courts/legal system
-Weaker law enforcement agencies
-Lack of accountability of those in power
-Corrupt bureaucrats
- Nepotism
-Party-centered politics
-Manipulation of average citizens by those in power, so on and so forth
All of the above issues/agenda got neglected during the ruling of self-centered parties. And there is no indication that it will get any attention this time around either. Actually Maoists were the only ones who raised those issues and remained consistent with it. But like I said elsewhere, even their cause falls short now because they (Maoists) have identified the wrong party as the SOURCE of all the ills of Nepal. While the cause is valid on Maoists’ part, the wrong means and misidentification lands them in the same ditch as the corrupt, visionless ‘democratic’ parties. But Maoists are more calculative than you or me are willing to give credit. After monarchy they will go after NC with same thrust of rhetoric and propaganda that they won’t know what hit them. Such is case with defenders of Nepali sovereignty.
Logistics of creating alternative voice/force is not easy, especially when people are shortsighted and unwilling to entertain long-term repercussions.
Activism can start at whatever level. If you can do basic reading and writing, you could write, report and engage with various others and continually report about ill intentions of those in power. Maoists have yet to answer for a decade long atrocities and displacement. The debate has to be brought up wherever they allow voices to be heard. The sentiment has to be kept alive and the truth of corrupt politicians and murders of innocents must always be brought into light if justice is to be served.
In one of his essays Dr. Mark made a very astute observation that there are no right-of-center parties in existence that can efficiently challenge the SPA-Maoists machine. The existing ones are unpopular. It doesn’t mean that there can never be one which can tap on the true sentiment of the people. We all know the ‘popular people’s movement’ is only popular amongst the 10% of Nepali population. Rest is as good as unpopular.
oops! let me take credit for the above anon. post.
sorry.
freeyoursenses ji,
ok credit all yours...
but have more querries:
All of the above issues/agenda got neglected during the ruling of self-centered parties. And there is no indication that it will get any attention this time around either
When were they seriously addressed in the history of Nepal? One individual, please.
But like I said elsewhere, even their cause falls short now because they (Maoists) have identified the wrong party as the SOURCE of all the ills of Nepal.
I infer, when you say ‘wrong party’, probably you are alluding to—Monarchy. Why should be monarchy exonerated all together, while dumping the blame, on someone else?
I agree, no ones’ had is clean. Why free pass to darbar? Few points would be appreciated.
Logistics of creating alternative voice/force is not easy, especially when people are shortsighted and unwilling to entertain long-term repercussions.
What are alternative voices and forces?
Why do you think people who do not entertain the line of your thought are shortsighted? It’s a grave allegation, if you can’t substantiate your claim, then, it just becomes speculation. Speculation on either sides are don’t have an oomph.
Activism can start at whatever level. If you can do basic reading and writing, you could write, report and engage with various others and continually report about ill intentions of those in power.
Whom to report? That is on the premise that you can read and write. About the 50% illiterate population, how are they going to report? Few words of words of wisdom would be enlightening.
Maoists have yet to answer for a decade long atrocities and displacement. The debate has to be brought up wherever they allow voices to be heard. The sentiment has to be kept alive and the truth of corrupt politicians and murders of innocents must always be brought into light if justice is to be served.
On the same page here, totally agree with you. Besides emotion and sentiments, and feeling of retribution, how do you suggest to just do that in constructive ways, without engaging in the war?
In one of his essays Dr. Mark made a very astute observation that there are no right-of-center parties in existence that can efficiently challenge the SPA-Maoists machine. The existing ones are unpopular. It doesn’t mean that there can never be one which can tap on the true sentiment of the people. We all know the ‘popular people’s movement’ is only popular amongst the 10% of Nepali population. Rest is as good as unpopular.
Dr. Mark has astutely identified the problem, aliment has long been diagnosed. But, where is the solution?
I WOULD APPRECIATE, IF YOU COULD ANSWER THEM WITHOUT BEING CONDESCENDING.
Oh grow up. Little condescension never hurt anyone! Get a thicker skin.
“When were they seriously addressed in the history of Nepal? One individual, please.”
Thus NEVER to be addressed? Is that your line of reasoning? The issue at hand is representation. Representation of groups/parties that will genuinely address such issues which certainly the corrupt politicians – by definition and experience – can not!
“I infer, when you say ‘wrong party’, probably you are alluding to—Monarchy. Why should be monarchy exonerated all together, while dumping the blame, on someone else?
I agree, no ones’ had is clean. Why free pass to darbar? Few points would be appreciated.”
Again, tit-for-tat is not going to get you anywhere. EXONERTATED, my boy?! Where are the charges? Don’t you need to convict someone before you can exonerate them? Further, there is no need to DUMP blames; facts support the thesis parties amassed country’s fortune and Maoists’ atrocities caused over 13000 deaths with over 200000 displacement. Are you only interested in theories????
“What are alternative voices and forces?
Why do you think people who do not entertain the line of your thought are shortsighted? It’s a grave allegation, if you can’t substantiate your claim, then, it just becomes speculation. Speculation on either sides are don’t have an oomph.”
Alternative voices are those that can think independently, see both sides of the debate and are able to see long-term implication of short-term hysteria. You must be pretty gullible to believe that SPA-Maoist pact is one that will last a good while or that such will bring about permanent peace in whatever form. No mere allegation. Definitely no speculation either. It’s a brutal, well-know fact. People have given yet another chance to murderous rebels and corrupt politicians and history as guide, once can possibly predict its outcome too. When you don’t learn from past mistakes, know that shortsightedness galore.
”Whom to report? That is on the premise that you can read and write. About the 50% illiterate population, how are they going to report? Few words of words of wisdom would be enlightening.”
The burden is on those that are willing and able to, of course. We cannot not get involved and complain once things fall apart.
“On the same page here, totally agree with you. Besides emotion and sentiments, and feeling of retribution, how do you suggest to just do that in constructive ways, without engaging in the war?”
Thus the need for an alternative force – independent of parties, Maoists and G. In ideally functioning democracy people, courts, academia, popular media and such would act in that capacity. In absence of such in Nepal, at least in the beginning, a third party is needed to reconcile past grievances, provide justice for victims, check the corrupt leaders and put controls in place to disallow rebels from imposing governance of fear.
Emotions and sentiments are always going to be there. You cannot look at human events independent of such.
“Dr. Mark has astutely identified the problem, aliment has long been diagnosed. But, where is the solution?”
Refer to the previous para. A third party and a clean leader who can ‘reconcile past grievances, provide justice for victims, check the corrupt leaders and put controls in place to disallow rebels from imposing governance of fear’ will be able win REAL popular support – nothing like what we are seeing now – a 10% popular movement.
That’s a shot in the arm for you. Do you feel rejuvenated, do ya?!
flip side of getting a thicker skin is that, you might get one around your cerebral too, and you know what it does to you.
not just rejuvenated, rejuvenated galore with all that trites and platitudes, few more of those 'shots' and i would be asphyxiated.
everyone is entitled to their opinion, and i respect yours too. well, we might have different approach, but we want something good for Nepal.
but if it's just one of your polemic pratice, expecting to dazzle us.
we are rejuvenated/dazzaled galore!! you don't have to prove yourself anymore, anymore regurgitating would be genuinely bore.
good luck.
Simply, super nova intellectuals and commentators have no place at present. Sick and tired of listening to high ideals, pure and pure misplaced angst and race to prove upmenship in terms of their academic qualifications. It don't stick no more.
As proven- now only might is the only way out. So worship might, be might and act might. I tell you day is not far behind WHEN all have to use might just to save our skin- so act now, talk less and have blind devotion and that is to save Nepal from the rut of SPAM
I kinda agree with freeursenses and just becuase you believe in the incompetency of the corrupt politicians does not mean that you are pro monarch.
However, after prachanda's admittance of GPK being a great leader, i think he has brought himself down to GPK's level. Now, if he considers GPK (who is considered by the entire nation as the culprit for all the present crisis) as a great leader, we know how small Prachanda has become. But, i do not think GPK will let the maoists into the government. He has always betrayed his partners and the Nepali people and he is going to do the same this time around too.
Politics aside, I agree with free your senses and the fact that we Nepalis need to get our priorities sorted, stand up and be counted.
You know what? now we are getting somewhere. This recent thread had all the earmarkings of degenerating into a Wagle shout-fest; but you worked out of it.
Bravo
First time blogdai has actually witnessed the birth of a concensus-forming mentality here.
-=blogdai
I tend to agree with freeyoursenses as well in priciple but where is this independent party/force going to come from? It seems to be a great idea but how are we to create this?
sorry that was from me...
I have to disagree with blogdai. Some of the people who 'participate' in this forum are as rabid as the ones you'll find in Wagle's.
In general though, the folks who come here have more control over their language.
And it may be time for you post again, that is, if you are in the least bit hopeful you can do something. Lately, you seem tired.
Thanks, Manan
I've got a few things in the works, but this thread has held my interest so I've let it consume our time.
Rabid is not the issue. We all get rabid from time to time. What was interesting was how such rabidity evolved into dialogue that was headed down the road to concensus: an organic mechanism necessary for a democracy.
anyway, we've got some new contributors ready to post as well as the familiar rantings of yours truly.
Stand by...
-=blogdai
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