Hey King: You Blew it!
No question. The King handled his little takeover poorly--but not for the reasons SPAM would have us believe. Blogdai has other views on G's Waterloo and why it evolved into the fiasco it became.
G. failed to prepare for his takeover. Had he done so, blogdai feels he would have incorporated something like the following strategy:
Never listen to the world. G. had the Parties and the Maoists looking for a place to hide and finding comfort in each other's ideologies. Would two such opposing political camps have allied had they not felt tremendous pressure and a need for self-preservation? G. should have kept going. Kept looking for the Maoists, kept up the fight and kept marginalizing and ignoring the parties. The fickle world community would have lost interest in Nepal soon enough and would have moved onto something more "news worthy."
Be different. Just visiting villages and shaking a few hands does not convince Nepalis that you are a man of the people. G. should have done something that would have showed everyone he meant business. First, offer any concrete initiative that would deal with and alleviate the Maoist support base--namely, land reform. Pull a George Bush and offer give aways to appease the masses. Eliminating the rural land barons would have guaranteed a larger base of citizen support and directly nullified one of Maoism's chief selling points. No? Then, how about offering some economic incentives like freer foreign investment? How about a stream-lined guest worker program? Progressive thought would have gone a long way in establishing G. as a new type of Royal.
Be sensitive to history. Only a fool would ignore the deep-seeded mistrust Nepalis have for royalty. G. compounded this suspicion after the royal massacre of beloved King Birendra. A statement, any statement acknowledging this sentiment and perhaps a gesture of transparency such as a re-opening of the incident to public scrutiny would help. Royal history is also a wealthy history. People despise Kings for this. G. should have addressed this by giving back portions of the royal fortune--very publicly--to citizens, groups, or to ideas that foster national unity. Eliminate the "greedy" exploiter label once and for all.
Throw out the bad apple. The people of Nepal will never get over the murder of a beloved artist at the hands of Paras. Plus, his exploits and thuggery shame Nepalis daily. Time for him to go. Send him abroad for an extended period of time on an extended mission of "diplomacy" or whatever. He loves taking bribes from China, so appease Big Northern Brother by sending Paras on repeated trade missions or what have you. The important thing is to get him out of Nepali consciousness for an extended period of time.
Control your army. When fighting a guerilla war, no participant is entirely clean. But, where was the outrage last week when Prachanda, when asked on a BBC call-in show what crimes innocent women and children committed that resulted in their torture and murder, said that "shit happens" in a war, and it's not his problem? No. The Western media is trained to see official soldierdom as a representation of world repression and the fact that these soldiers in Nepal serve a monarch naturally makes them all the more guilty. If G. had any foresight at all he would have anticipated this perspective and the microscope his troops would now be under and briefed his military accordingly. Absolute care should have been taken to avoid civilian casualties where possible, and absolutely no incidences of verifiable army atrocities tolerated. Very public disciplining of wayward or cruel military personnel would have sent a powerful message.
Don't hire imbeciles. Bringing back idiots from the Panchayat era to run the government was a major mistake. Tulsi Giri was a loose cannon early on and only stirred up dormant resentments among citizens. SPAM used these resentments to help mobilize people for their April protests, so reminding people of past repressive regimes created an easily manipulated rallying point around which SPAM crafted their protests. G. should have solicited the best and brightest new voices for his government. Those with an eye on the past, sure, but with a definite vision for the future and an actual understanding of the democratic process. This alone may have been enough to stave off protests. It certainly would have given a comparison point for citizens to guage the ineffectiveness of past Girija/Deuba governments and help them consign those two inept fossils to the dust-bin of obscurity.
-=blogdai
posted by blogdai @ 9/17/2006 08:42:00 AM
135 comments
135 Comments:
I do not know what King G's intentions were in the power grab, but he sure did not gauze the public sentiment towards the royals.
I think the biggest problem for King G is his and his advisors being out of touch with Nepali reality. Whether you accept it or not, King G's closest advisors are Bharat Keshari Simha, Sharad Chandra Shah, and Sachit Sumshere Rana. One thing common among all his closest advisors are they all belong to Rana/Shah clan who have become wealthy by robbing the natioanl treasury and are completely out of sync with the Nepali masses. The second ring of his advisors are the leaders promoted by Royal palace during Panchayat system and they are sycophants who would only tell the King what he wants to hear. I think this was the fundamental problem for King G.
The second problem with King G is his belief in superstition. When King G blew up $2M on a trip to Africa taking one of only two aircrafts of RNAC during the peak tourist season on advice of an astrologer, most people in Nepal thought that G was nuts and this was a height of his excesses.
Another problem for King G was inconsitencies on what he says and his actions. He would talk about corruption in SPA, but would appoint corrupt and criminal ministers. He would do a photo up with rural Nepalis but would not even utter a word of condolence when Nepalis died on Nagarkot incidents and so on. Instead of spending millions on PR, and trying to portray what he is not, he should have tried to transform as a benevolent King helping poor with his wealth, and initiating reforms in land, bureacracy etc.
However, I think he would have faced a roadblock first from his inept advisors who themselves are one of the biggest beneficiaries of the corrupt feudal landowner policies, bureacracy, etc.
Later
Bravo Blogdai on a good article. Yes Raja G messed up big time.
I agree with most of the things you have mentioned. However, land reform is far more complicated and difficult and it could backfire and be counterproductive if it is not handled correctly.
The point is that he didn't have to go to the point of making major structural reforms. He should have appointed a good cabinate and he should have improved public services!
He shouldn't have increased palace expenditure and he should have, as you mentioned, redistributed Royal property.
And of course his biggest mistake was to jail civil society leaders and journalists!
Land reform is so complex that blogdai fears it would take generations to enact properly.
A simple acknowledgement by G. that the problem even exists would have been enough to maintain rural support. Tackling it effectively would be the job of future elected officials (such a Polyanna, is blogdai)
I think a lot of us missed something in the jailing of political leaders by G. I like your point here and perhaps I might suggest that G. may have missed a golden opportunity here as well. The world focused on the simple jailing of leaders; not on the circumstances or the length of their sentences. G.'s failure here is one of omission. He did not alert the world to the fact that all jailed leaders were released in a reasonable amount of time and in relatively good condition. He did not mention that many of these leaders had been jailed and released before, and, most importantly, he failed to draw any comparisons between his relatively easy punishments and those perpetrated by the true rogue regimes of the world. Remember, everyone was calling G. a "despot" at this time. He blew a big chance at showing the world otherwise.
-=blogdai
Mistake was made but given a choice I would place by bet on him rather than SPAM, any day. The mistake or thing he overlooked was importance of MEDIA and DIPLOMACY along with advisers who were out of time.
Sansar
I would like to start by saying that this is indeed a good article and something that needed to be discussed as well. So, well done blog dai;
This is also one of the very few times that i feel that i am in some ways in agreement with pundit jee.
I think the main problem with our king was he did not want to be a dictator. But what we need was a lee kwan yu (the singaporean leader, i am not sure of the spelling though). I think he would have succeeded had he been a true dictator. He started his cabinet with new people and technocrats which, i think was the right way to go. However, i think he became to deffensive somewhere along the line and thought may be he needed some hard line royalists to defend him. Yes, the panchayat people's reinstatement was a mistake. The other thing is yes, he should have ignored the world community. He should have also jailed all leaders who claimed to have travelled to india to meet leaders of terrorist organization that had already taken more than 10000 lives. But then, he was following the constitution that even the parties themselves declared rubbish. I agree that he should have shown his effectivness with day to day administration of the nation. He should have made the government more transparent and so on. But look, the game being played here is bigger than the king, spa or the maoists. Let us wait and see whats in store for us now.
Blogdai and Co.
Yes the King is a Moron. But what continues to suprise me is that people assume Raja G is shrewed, cunning etc. That is a huge misconception. Many people have this impression because they think he is a smart bsuiness man with his Soltee investments etc.
Couldn't be further from the truth.
Firstly, all his business ventures are run by Prabhakar Rana. Plus if you think about it, most of these business ventures like Soltee flurished under protectionist enviroment during the Panchayat era. No one knows how it would have faired in a competitive enviroment.
Secondly, unlike Raja B, G was never groomed to be a King. At least Birendara had exposure - he went to eton, Tokyo university, Harvard. Of course B wasn't excatly the brightest student but again he didn't need to be. The point it he had some exposure. I think Birendra would have been a good King if the Late Queen wasn't a greedy manipulative witch.
Raga G on the other hand was incredibly arrogant and narrow minded and uneducated. To add fuel to the fire he surrounded himself with like minded people. A sure recipe for disaster.
So yes he did have many opportunity but it doesn't suprise me that he messed up!
Mr. Bhudai,
I am always amazed at how much information you carry with you. You must invest quite a lot of time doing research. You know about who is running G's business and whats his IQ and so on. Good on you man. But the fact that you conviniently and intentionaly keep forgeting is that no one here is advocated for an absolute monarchy rule. This is not SPA Vs the king. Maybe it is to you. No one actually believes that our king would or could have survived without democracy. It is still the case. You always make it the King vs. the SPA. But then, your hatred for the king is so deep and your love (or maybe so kind of interest) for the SPA is so clear that you do not even read most of our comments. You are on a mission to write against the king and that is what you do. You sometimes criticize the SPA with words like, "well, i will admitt that the spa were not perfect" or "post 1990 period was not all rosy but.." This is only to peretend neutrality. This i know. When you call someone a moron, how can the other person defend himself? What is the point of debate? You call king a moron and so what is there left to say? what can be said to you in retaliation? What is a moron?
Then you go on praising the King B. Everyone love dead people. Your praises for king b is only a farce to project yourself not necessarily as anti monarch but instead as someone who would always support he right person. But then you were the one talking about 237 years of atrocities of the ranas and shahs. Maybe king b was you favorite one. But please stop this self righteous ventures as potraying your self and your beloved spa as the only salvation for our deceased nation.
And Mr. Pundit,
What is this blogdai and co? what does it mean? and what are trying to imply by it?
Mr B. or whatever,
Your allegation of pretense of neutrality directed at Mr. Bhudai Pundit is quite imbecile. Bhudai has not claimed neutrality. He clearly favours the other political players over the King, like the majority people in Nepal right now. The pretense of neutrality more appropriately applies to you. While blatantly supporting the King and attacking the SPA, you say this is not about King vs. the SPA. What is it about then, please enlighten.
B:
Frankly I am getting a little tired of repeating myself over and over again.
Either: i) You cannot read ii) I cannot express myself iii) You understand me but you just don’t want to accept my point iv) You are just plain stupid.
By the way I am assuming that you are the same B from savenepalnow.org.
I am flattered that I amaze you, but the facts I have mentioned in my posts are common knowledge to most Nepalese who have a basic idea about what is going on around them. The fact that you think, it requires ‘research’ only indicates that you are oblivious to what has been happening and what is happening in Nepal.
“But the fact that you conviniently and intentionaly keep forgeting is that no one here is advocated for an absolute monarchy rule.”
Well I never said anyone was. Perhaps you would be so kind as to quote me. The title of this article, if you bothered to read, is “Hey King: You Blew it”. I have merely pointed out some ways which Raja G blew it and attempted to explain his actions. I don’t understand why foam is oozing out of your mouth and you are alleging that I am making this the SPA vs. The King. Besides, I think we already know the result of that contest.
My point B (for the thousandth time) is that the SPA is the ONLY middle ground to solve Nepal’s political impasse. As worthless as their leaders might be, we really don’t have an option at this point. If you have an alternative solution I would love to hear it. I have read your countless verbose posts in which you go on and on about how bad the leaders are and how much the SPA failed. However, I am yet to read a post in which you suggest a viable alternative. “We need new leaders” is about the closest you have come – well tell us something we don’t already know! Don’t simply repeat a popular catch phrase you overheard without laying out some concrete plans.
Furthermore, I would appreciate if you could stop speculating on the workings of my mind by saying my hatred of the King is deep etc. Again if you bothered to READ the posts you would see that not true. I was, in fact, suggesting to Blogdai ways, in which, the King could have made the Feb 1st move work in his favor. I don’t agree what he did was correct but he could have made the most out of it.
As maddening as it is to all of us, blogdai likes the level of frustration here. People are desperate for clarity; any clarity.
For our part, here at blogdai we don't care if one is pro SPA or pro King as long as your thoughts are presented rationally and your argument is sound.
It doesn't take a genius to discern where Bhudai's sentiments lie but that misses the point entirely. Bhudai is one of the few opposing posters here who presents his views in the spirit of compromise and with an eye towards overall problem-solving; and for that, his views are both rare and solicited here.
-=blogdai
Any chance of Nepalese Army learning lessons from Thai Army? I like to see that.
Mr. Pundit,
Yes i am a believer of constitutional monarchy and multiparty democracy if that makes you feel any better. But if a republic nepal is really in the interest of Nepal i have no problems with and after all, without the king i can still remain a nepali but without nepal i am a nobody.
The reason i have been crticizing the spa is because of their mistakes. The country is on the verge of collapse and with the king out of the way, there is no point attacking him constantly while the effort should have been diverted towards more important issues. Of course, i am the one that visits snn as well.
However, i have also given solutions to the problems, if you care if you had taken care to read my comments.
Education: there needs to be a twenty year plan on this. The affiliation system needs to be abolished completely but slowly. The affilliation system restricts the progress of our academic sector. Changing or adding a syllabus or curriculum in our present time frequently as the world is constantly changing aswell. Students do not go to classes and only sit for exams which insures that we do not get quality students. We have a system where a 16 year old need to decide his future after slc as to which career path to choose as in arts, commerce or science. This is absolutely unreasonable. At 18 after + 2 if a student decides he does not like commerce anymore but instead would like to study science, there are no provisions for it. Hence, he would have to choose a career that he would hate his life time. It is when you study what you want, you excel and produce good results. Everyone should be allowed to study whatever they want, if they have the intention to do so and the money for the tuition fees. Affiliated colleges have very limited function as they are simply there to run the classes and collect tuition fees. The college does not have any say in the curriculum or the setting of the question papers. The fact that the teachers are judged by the number of students who passes the exams forces the teacher to teach them accordingly. So, a large portion of class time is devoted to providing notes and taking down notes. Students do not buy books and learn their notes by heart. Which also promotes absentism as, they can copy notes from their friends. You could be surprised to know that a lot of the students do not even know how to read a book. Even if they are studying at masters level, you hardly see them reading a book. So, the teachers give note, students learn it by heart. The teacher earns his reputation and student earns the certificate and so on and on. The sad fact is none of the parties have ever shown any serious concern towards this sector.
Judicial Sytem: there needs to be a mechanism to strengthen our judicial system. Our people should not fear any one when they have done nothing wrong and be confident of justice when someone does wrong to him or her. At the moment justice cost both time and money and then you do not get one. We need to work to have an impartial and effective justice system. This will eliminate a lot of descrimination that we are seeing against, dalits and women. Instead of hitting the street everytime there is an abuse a proper system needs to be installed to guarantee an effective justice to the victims. However, the parties seem more concerned about influencing the judiciaries rather than help them maintain or attain independence.
Politics: I think i have said it enough time already. The pm needs to be elected by the entire nation not just one district. This will ensure that the parties produce their best and most capable leader for the post. The PM once elected should not be allowed to run for PM post again should he lose an election for the post of PM. May be restricting the maximum term for any pm will also help but not too sure about it.
Businesses; The government needs to guarantee security for all the businesses in Nepal. They should try and promote small business which also means they need to find a way of awarding small loans at very generous rate to small farmers, shop keepers or any other form of small businesses. The money needs to be rotated.
Similarly there are so many other things that i have written already. Even a few wrtten directly for you to read and comment on but i guess you were a bit busy. I support the king but i accept that he could not handle his own take over. I agree he made a fool out of himself and the fact that the SPA outdid him in politics. But i think for now he is out of the scene and more emphasis should be given to other areas of national interest. However, the SPA have so far failed to do anything. So, they have even failed to tame the maoists. I understand that this may be the last chance this country is going to get. So, the need for this government to succeed is even greater and so are the risks. No, unlike your belief, i am not expecting king's comeback. As it would not be in the interest of the nation and constant distability would cause the country more distress than relief. The reason, i am so critical of the spa at the moment, is because so much is at stake. If they fail, i fear that a lot of innocent people are going to die. I am not the kind to say, king at any cost but yes, i believe in COuntry at any cost. Yours and my views are different. You think first stability and peace and then development. I believe that they should go hand in hand. I think that was also one of the major bluders of the King. He consentrated too much on politics and too little on development and other major issues.
This is not the time to be thinking who actually won the battle between the spa and the king. If the king needs to go, i am sure the referrendum or the CA will decide accordingly. So, let it be. If some one needs to be prosecuted for the period of royal regime, go on and do it. The problem today with our country is that no one is actually getting any stronger. The king is weak, the spa is weak and the maoists are weak as well. The only thing is who is less weaker than the rest. However, the struggle between all the political forces must end for ever and a mechanism must be devised for peaceful co existance. For me, i still see the relevance of the king but the world does not revolve around what i see now, does it? The spa need to start working in other areas of development as well, regardless of how the peace process goes. Other wise, we will not only have a war at hand but also, more poverty, more instability and more of all the wrong things.
I think the spa needs a clear thinking when it comes to the maoists. I think the SPA do not actually realize why they need the CA, where as the maoists are very clear on that. May be the 7 parties need to sit together and work out their differences. The Nepali congress, as far as i can see, do not even see the relevance of ca anymore. However, the communist forces are adamant and much more clearer on their stance. I am, of course, not talking about Makune when i say communist forces. I do not even consider him a force because he is so inarticulate and keeps changing his words ever so frequently.
They also need to be alert to other possibilities as well. What if the army decides to take over? what if they kick out both the king and the spa and take controll? after all the army does not even need the king anymore, do they? Or what if the army and the maoists agree to their own collaborations and so on. Army or a maoist take over would be even harder to overthrow than the kings.
However, it feels like both the SPA and the maoists are trying to outdo eachother. Restraining the maiosts now would be a lot harder this time around as they are using peace as their weapons. What we also need to know is, what kind of multiparty democracy have they envisioned for Nepal. Because, you know what multiparty means and democracy of course is defined differently by many regimes, government and so on. Like some one told me in another blog that royalist say that even panchayat was a democracy of some sorts. Well, maybe but there is no way we can go back to the panchayat system now. It will not be accepted by the people themselves.
Even if the spa can not achieve much at this stage, i think they should at least come up with future strategies and plannings in all the important sectors, like education, health and so on.
sarki ko choro,
The Thai experiment has already been tried in Nepal -- it's called Feb. 1. It failed miserably as Blogdai mentions in the title of this post.
The King, SPA and Maoists are the three faces of the Nepali hydra.
A feudalistic power struggle engulfs Nepal but to the neglect of the real issues.
Urban Kathmandu Valley and the rest of Nepal, in effect are two separate and unequal countries.
In one, around the capital, where around 5 per cent of the population live, the incidence of poverty is around 4 per cent and illiteracy is 24 per cent.
In the rest of the country, poverty is ten times as high and the chance of being literate almost three times lower.
The power struggle is in effect needlessly self-indulgent and at the expense of the people.
I can not understand how any one can side with either the Maoists, the King or the SPA when they do not represent anything of substance to the people.
It makes me feel powerless having to watch one face replace another.
They have opposing idealogies but in practice they are the same power grabbing bastards who want to govern Nepal.
As Prachanda dotes on his 'demi-god' status and Koirala convinces himself that he is a President in waiting and a civil service that burrows into the public purse -what will 95% of the population do?
Nepal needs to get its priorities in order and stop f***king about over self indulgent power politics.
If Nepal can not find leaders to govern then perhaps it should let India govern?
Mr. B
There you go again. Listen you need not waste your time telling me generic recommendations you read in Jeffery Sachs’ books. It might come as a surprise to you, but we ALL know that good education, strong judiciary and other policies conducive towards small business are fundamental blocks to economic development. You didn’t have to spend all that time regurgitating text book material.
But educational reform or any other reform cannot take place in the absence of a stable political environment. Otherwise, who is going to initiate these reforms? So yes I believe you need a certain level of peace and stability before development can start. If schools keep shutting down, if children cannot go to school safely how do you suppose your educational reform is going to have any effect?
So my question was how to solve Nepal’s political impasse and I accused you of not coming up with a viable alternative. You solution seems to be to just demonize the SPA.
But I agree with you that the recent wave of people who have been hounding after the palace has been too excessive. The King, for now, is out of the picture and we are faced with a much more serious and imminent threat – the Maoists.
When you have this kind of lawlessness in rural Nepal, it is practically impossible to really continue development efforts. Because of the Maoists numerous Donors have halted their work, business have shut down etc. So how the hell are you suppose to continue development efforts under these circumstances? What needs to happen is that Girija needs to grow a dick and some balls and he needs to stand up to the Maoists firmly and demand that they stop their atrocities or risk resuming the war. As far as I can tell, Baburam and Prachanda are not keen on going back to the jungles and hiding for the rest of their lives. But Girija needs to leverage his position.
Ian:
For just suggesting that India should govern Nepal, I will have to punch you in the face should I ever run into you… I am serious.
We are going through a bad phase. It doesn’t mean we just give up our sovereignty! What kind of an absurd and ridiculous idea is that? People like you really need to burnt at the stake or be sent to Australia. How dare you make such a claim? We don’t need people like you and this other Van Der Beer person to keep poking their noses where it doesn’t belong.
Blogdai – please don’t take any offence from this comment. Unlike these fools, I think your views and ideas and comments are very constructive, worthwhile and all of us appreciate your blog, which has been a great forum in which to debate and discuss issues.
However, I am sure you can understand that when a, $2/ day, tourist like Ian thinks he is the sh*t and makes a stupid comment like that, people are bound to get angry.
No ..No.. No.. No... No.., Feb 1 was not exactly that. There is a BIG difference. I don't need to go into that.
Well, i did not copy any of those things from anyone's book. I actually have not even read the book, I am just an ordinary person working in the field of tourism in Nepal.
Well, the solution as you said, is that "Girija needs to grow a dick." That i agree with. But, i also think that they need to come up with policies and strategies to strengthen the institutional infrastructure of the nation. May be they can not be implement straight away but it will at least get the ball rolling. Today, arniko highway beyond, banepa is completely bandh. Our guests (tourists) had to come back from banepa and they were headed for the tibet border. I mean it is total anarchy here. The SPA need to be autocratic if it helps the problem. They should not make popular decisions but instead right ones. You think all these bandhs, school closures and so on would stop if the dialogue between the spa and the maoists are successful. No, instead it would intesify. I think, for the time being the SPA government need to act like dictators and get most of the institutions functioning. Today, they are simply acting as a negotiating team waiting for another shikhar baarta. that is all they are doing. Look if they do not take a strong position today, it may be a little too late tomorrow. Time to act is now.
As far as solutions are concerned, what are yours? "SPA is the ONLY middle ground to solve Nepal’s political impasse", sound more like hope than any solution. You have a solution? If you do, you have not written any. The war is still on and this is no impasse. The maoist have used this period as an opportunity to fruther their goals and demands. This period is only a strategy employed by the maoists to defeat a weak government.
Yes, girija needs to grow a dick. Maybe, realese a statement stating that all those who committ crimes will be prosecuted and punished by law. Even the maoists. Stop requesting maoists to cease their atrocitious activities and extortions. Take a bold step towards resolving the issue. The nation is on the line and maybe it is time, spa started thinking that at least for the time being, they should not care about the rights of people to peacfully protest, or freedom of speech or other democratic rights. This is already an undeclared state of emergency.
And i do not agree with you that, no work of development can be done now. No progress can be made now. I think this anarchy can be stoped if the government is willing to take a bold step even at the cost of it being unpopular for a while. Look reforms and stability go hand in hand. You are not going to have a stable nepal unless the government at least comes out with some kind of strategies for reforms. Who are going to initiate them, well what are the ministers doing? Not all of them are in the negotiating team are they? And if no reforms and developments were possible during this period why did we need so many ministers? And please stop whining about me complaining about the spa. With no oppositions in the parliament, i think it would do good to criticize them regularly and is it not my right anyway?
Mr. Pundit,
And i totally agree with you in regards to your comments to ian. Good one.
I demonized the SPA because they are acting like demons. They are demons and they have been demons for the past fifteen years. What do you expect? They have turned this prosperous tourism sector into a graveyard of yesterdays. Every season we say, may be the next season would be better. We have been saying this for the past 8 years. Even now, the bandhs and srikes have started again. Tourists are more upset with strikes and bandhs even more than the war itself. Because it restricts their movability and they certainly do not want to be stuck in Kathmandu for days. And if the SPA do not do something about this right away, this is going to continue for years to come regardless of the outcome of dialogue between the spa and the maoists.
Mr. pundit, when i say development, i do not necessarily mean construction of roads and stuff. May we can change something in the education sector. Something like, students requiring 90% attendance to be allowed to sit for examinations or strategies to make government work more efficient or more effective and so on.
The negotiation between the spa and the maoists does not seem to be going well. The pm says the maoists need to lay down their arms before entering the government while makune says it is not necessary. The us ambassador is visiting villages and army barracks, which i think should have been done by one of the ministers in our present government.
And Mr. Pundit,
Who is going to be held responsible for all the deaths caused by the maoists after the announcement of the cease fire? Well, the ever mighty and above the law, SPA have forgiven the maoists for all their crimes before the cease fire, but what about now? If the SPA are the representatives of the people, then are they not also responsible for the safety and security of the people? When the maoists kill the innocent people they claim to represent, should they not at least try to bring the culprits to justice? Long live the SPA, your only hope, our greatest nightmare.
Two problems:
1. The Nepali state is paralysed by power games at the top. The problem is not who is in power but the lack of leadership, stability and effectivenss of the state to carry out its policies. The further you travel from Kathmandu the weaker the state. Outside district headquarters the government is almost non existent and ineffective. This is greatly exacerbated by the Maoist conflict and a Kathmandu centric bureaucracy.
2. Urban Kathmandu Valley and the rest of Nepal, in effect are two separate and unequal countries.
In one, around the capital, where around 5 per cent of the population live, the incidence of poverty is around 4 per cent and illiteracy is 24 per cent.
In the last 10 years, World Bank estimates describe a Gini coefficient increase from 34.2 to 41.1 between urban Kathmandu and rural Nepal. In other words, whilst
urban Kathmandu Valley has been getting richer over the last 10 years -rural nepal has been left behind.
A literacy rate of 43.5% in Dhading, 39% in Ramechhap and 40.2% in Sindhupalchok does not compare favourably with 77.1% in Kathmandu, 70.3% in Bhaktapur and 70.8%. Does it? So why are you talking about college education?
It is most pronounced when you look at the literacy rates of girls.
According to the Ministry of Education, 66.4% of girls in Kathmandu, 59.4% in Bhaktapur and 60.3% in Lalitpur are literate in whilst 33.8% of girls in Dhading, 26.4% of girls in Ramechhap and 29.1% of girls in Sindhupalchok are literate. Whilst perhaps more strikingly, only 9% of girls in Mugu and 11.5% of girls in Humla district were literate
One in three Nepali children are engaged in work. 59,000 children are working in brick kilns, 34,000 children are working in stone quarries and god knows how many children are working in carpet factories, mining, domestic workers, rag pickers and so on. Most of these children are economic migrants, landless and low caste.
And whilst this goes on the King, SPA and the Maoists fight over who governs and how they govern.
They have opposing idealogies but in practice they are the same power grabbing bastards who want to govern Nepal.
As Prachanda dotes on his 'demi-god' status and Koirala convinces himself that he is a President in waiting and a civil service that burrows into the public purse -what will 95% of the population do?
Nepal needs to get its priorities in order and stop f***king about over self indulgent power politics.
So which Brahmin do you want in power?
Uh, i don't care I want stability, peace and development.
To those who say SPA are better option just because they are on the middle path and they are not killers and are democratic- get shock of your life. THEY ARE NOT. I blame SPA more than the Maoist for this mess. Ask me why? They had the moral ground to democractize, execute and integrate democractic norms in our life but they opted for quick and dirty solution and joined hands with the devil. Now devils does what it does best(kill, torture, extort) and SPA is a partner- more culpable then Maoist just for the fact they committed Cardinal Sin.
How blind can we be- all the writing is on the wall and people here still debating this and that- you talk about school children, just you wait, they will drag even 70s and 80s year old to work for them. If we continue to deny the fact and the the real picture as SPA has been doing, the end is a nightmare in waiting.
Who the has answer for this mess, no one and who do you think is gonna guide us out, no one. So unless we learn to be pragmatic and see reality eye to eye not blow air with sermons and anti-this and anti that, time may not show kindness which we expect being cocooned in this blog site or four walled room.
Ian is right- no matter what its the same people who want to govern. The need of hour is, as Ian put it "lack of leadership, stability and effectivenss of the state to carry out its policies." I totally agree with that.
As for going berserk for stating let "India govern," why the hell is this anything new or not said before by the Indians. If you ask me, and I am fully convinced, the whole andolan was instigated by the Indians for Indians. Try to dig little deeper before making silly remarks as "punch you in face." What a bravdo, a cheap one at best.
Yeah yeah I blame this, I blame that. Blame game is not going to take us anywhere. If anyone is to blame, it is that someone who murdered the king. He deserves the blame for murder.
Mr. Pundit,
I meet Ian on a monthly basis. Do you want me to convey your "punch in the face" to him?
Will be happy to oblige. :)
Anonymous:
You are truly pathetic. I know your political sentiments exactly. You are basically a staunch Royalist who would just love to see Nepal go back to the Panchayat era. Oh I bet it is eating you inside to see your beloved Monarchy and his royal stooges getting DISRESPECTED.
You aren’t a practical “Royalist” like Blogdai. Blogdai (if I may take the liberty to speculate) leans over to monarchy for the purpose of providing stability and acting as a third wheel. But You Anonymous, I am fairly certain, would advocate Panchayat if you could really express your feelings. Too bad the Nepali people will give you a “laat” if you say that in public. No matter how bad the SPA is, most people don’t want to revert back to an autocratic King.
The Panchayat government would always use this anti-India sentiment to stir “nationlist” feelings and muster support for itself. It’s the oldest trick in the book and that’s why I call you pathetic for trying and use that here. Like the title of this article suggests the King blew it! So deal with it!
The SPA are bending over for the Maoists currently. I will agree with that, but I still stand by my position that they are the middle ground. And yes Ian should apologize for that insensitive comment.
Lets all just calm down and talk about the issues rather than personalise the matter with insults.
Let's sit down and talk? Really? I thought your solution was to just let India take over.
Well Mr. pundit,
What can the SPA possibly do now? please let us know? What could they do to make the situation better and what do the indications on the ground say? Why are they the middle ground? They are the representatives of the people, you would say, but did they not collaborate with the maoists to kill innocent civilians and security forces during the period of the municipal elections? does that make them our representatives? What have they done untill now that sounds or feels positive to you or at least make you hopeful?
Citizenship draft bill likely to create population mayhem
Kathmandu, 22 September:
The responsible political forces and civil society are hesitating to question the conditions presented on the recently issued citizenship draft bill which means that Nepal will eventually pay a high price in the future for keeping mum at present, writes Kathmandu Today weekly. The newly proposed draft has provided the provision of providing Nepalese citizenship to those foreigners, who have been born and been living in Nepal since before 1990.
Similarly, the draft has also provided the provision of providing Nepalese citizenship to the children of those Nepalese women, who have been married with foreigners. Therefore, the draft is surely to facilitate the foreigners residing in Nepal rather than those Nepalese deprived from citizenship. It is surely to create population mayhem in the country. As we all are aware of the fact that Nepal lies between China and India, the two most populated countries in the world, and if only a small percentage of their population get Nepalese citizenship then also the actual Nepalese citizens are more likely to fall under the minority population. If this situation arrives then how are we going to protect our freedom, integrity, sovereignty and culture? Despite all these facts the government is after providing Nepalese citizenship to the foreigners.
People's News/KDB
First, we need to know how maoists define their multiparty democracy. Multiparty simply means more than one party and democracy can always have different definitions depending on countries, regimes and so on. Even the cihinese would say their country is democratic, would not they? Only theirs is not an american democracy.
The other thing is the election for CA. WHy do we need it? If it is to throw the king, we can simply have a refferendum and get it over with. If not then what for? Let us say we have a new constitution thru CA, would the parliament be able to change it with 2/3 majority when the need may come?
IF YES:
What guarantees do the maoists have that their constitution will not be changed with vote of majority in the parliament in the distant future? And why not just conduct a refferendum on the king and ammend what ever we do not like about the constitution?
IF NOT:
is it democratic then? we live in world where we just learnt a couple of weeks ago that the nine planets we thought existed in our solar system for so many years is not actually true any more. I mean, we need to change with time. The fact and realities of today may not remain so tomorrow and the need to change will be inevitable. We can not expect our future generation to start a revolution everytime they need something changed in the constitution. Or write new constitution every 10 years.
Look, i just don’t know what the maoists are getting out of all these things? A republic state is possible if all eight parties come to consensus tomorrow. I really do not believe in the crap that the election for CA is actually a provision for the people to write their own constitution and even if it is, i do not think it is going to make a difference.
The fact that our last affair with democracy failed because the constitution was flawed, this i do not agree with. BUt instead it was the inefficiency of the leaders who took upon the responsibility of building the nation.
Maoists are a threat and SPA are fools, Moriarty tells PM
Himalayan News Service Kathmandu, September 21:
The US Ambassador to Nepal, James F Moriarty, today met Prime Minister Girija Prasad Koirala at the latter’s residence at Baluwatar. The envoy shared the experiences of his recent tour of the mid and far-western regions of the country, where he found that the law and order situation had deteriorated. According to a source close to the PM, Moriarty expressed his concern over privileges being given to the Maoists by the government. Moriarty told the prime minister that they could pose a threat to democracy in the long run as the Maoists were still indulging in extortion, abduction and intimidation in rural areas, the source told this daily.
The source said the meeting focused mainly on the Maoists’ strategy and arms management. During the ‘customary meeting,’ Koirala is learnt to have asked the envoy on what basis he was saying that the Maoists could be a threat to democracy. Sources quoted Moriarty as saying that Maoist activities in the rural areas were inconsistent with the commitments made by them in the talks table. Moriarty is learnt to have reiterated the US position that the Maoists should not be taken into the interim government until and unless their arms are decommissioned.
Moriarty is also learnt to have expressed his concern over the deteriorating security arrangements, especially in the rural areas. He is also believed to have told the PM that he found a dual system of governance in the country. However , Moriarty told reporters that he met the PM as it was customary to brief the head of government after a diplomat’s visit outside the capital.
Bhudai dai,
Tell us what the SPA has done so far in the interest of the nation after 1990? You think, i am less intelligent just because i dont support GPK and Makune? That i am a part of regressive force just because i do not support your corrupt leaders? I am a royalist if i do not accept the legitimacy of SPA as a middle ground? You are a fool, dai? And if blogdai appreciates you (just becuase you frequently suck up to him), does not make you any better. I have a right to hate the SPA leaders. They have stolen money from me. From my family. I pay tax do you? Please keep your self righteous self to urself and stop your philosophy of "you are wrong if you do not think i am right." I agree with B. So, how and why are the spa the viable middle ground? Do you know what Viable actually means? Or did you just copy it from a book?
hey, b please change your name as i have been using B for a long time now. Please man.
I would like to inform everyone that the last comment under b was not me. It is some one else.
Sorry, guys it was me who wrote under b. was an accident
Pundit, you go overboard when there is rational discussion and in discussions, sometimes point are made that may not to be your liking just like I do not like you calling insults and disparaging institution that i firmly believe is a bind puts us together. Now, lets not get into intellectual fanfare theorizing who did wrong and Panchyat was better- may be it was. But the point is if you start looking for fault wilfully, even Guatam Budhha can be termed wife abuser by the neo women's lib. He left his wife high and dry. So if you start that road its never ending.
You scream against let "india govern" but are quick to defend it by saying old trick of panchyat. Has it ever occured to you that It might be a real thing. I have seen in website back in 2005 ( Indian blogsite) where these mother openly stated that all terai should be integrated into U.P and Bihar- was it coincedential, I think not. May be you think I trying to arouse something we all lack, nationalism, damn right I am.
Tendecy to base argument on loose talks is the trick of the trade here in Nepal- just flip thriough Kantipur and you see what I talking about. You wanna be constructive then do something about, not hark back to same old to make your point. By the way you do not firmly believe in SPA but still think its the best that there is. Go read Ian piece again. Just like flexitime, you tend to theorize that SPA is of the moment so better option even with shot full of holes. Actually SPA is more dangerious than Maoist just for the fact Maoist know excatly what they are getting at but SPA is clueless, now tell me where would place you bet if you are betting man, something concert or on loose ground. Better own up and be a man then in the middle like Hijara, I say.
How can you justify SPA inaction when children are herded in a bus, house looted in board day light, and caste based warfare rage on and are incited. How can you place your false trust on SPA when they cannot even agree on one thing, a case history does illustrate that, doesn't it? But the action of banding with Maoist was the last straw- they simply lost it for me.
let me stop my punditry before I impale someone.
The only thing HM Gyanendra missed was the media part. The next time I will be his media and political advisor. You know "tough nutts" for "stinky butts - SPAM".
Yeah, it was the media part. And the corruption part (all those money Kamal Thapa distributed to mediapersons). And the nepotism (remember shutting down NTC mobile in favor of MeroMobile?). And the governance part (simply visiting villages is not enough). And the resource management part (shutting down RNAC for a private Africa trip). And the cabinet part (keeping murderers and defaulters in the mix). And of course the civil liberties part (shutting down phone and Internet for a WEEK). And the diplomacy part. I could go on and on.
But you can understand all that. It was King G's first chance at running the country. King G would have to have tried 10 times before we gets it right. Same thing for the SPA leaders. They did screw up in the past but they did outperform the King. And they are better at the learning curve.
Hey Ian, how about we disband the parliament in UK and have Queen Elizabeth run the country as the Chairwoman of Council of Ministers? Or would you rather just have the US take over UK??
I support Blogdai's position of having the King running for election alongside politicians. If the King wins, he can become the Chairman again.
Mr. Prism or whatever,
"But you can understand all that. It was King G's first chance at running the country. King G would have to have tried 10 times before we gets it right. Same thing for the SPA leaders. They did screw up in the past but they did outperform the King. And they are better at the learning curve."
Yes, just as i suspected, you start criticizing the SPA the same way mr. pundit would. "the SPA leaders screw up but.." No wonder, you were upset with me for criticizing the pundit. The SPA did not outperform the king but they outperformed themselves. They are seriously fcuked now and so are we. But then, we will wait and see what happens next will the maoists outsmarts the spa or mr. moriarty outsmarts the maoists.
"Hey Ian, how about we disband the parliament in UK and have Queen Elizabeth run the country as the Chairwoman of Council of Ministers?"
What an idiot you are? Even mr. pundit must feel shame for your earlier support for him. What do you mean we disband the parliament? who are you to disband england's parliament? However, i think the british parliament does have that authority should they decide to use it but it is very very very unlikely that they would ever do that and for your information the queen does have special powers like our king but the parliamentarians there are responsible are not they. But our politicians did disband the parliament and it was not ian or the british government. WHy are you upset with ian because our parliament was disbanded by our politicians?
"Or would you rather just have the US take over UK??"
Look the state of UK is fine. THey doing great with great economy, great democracy and great infrastructure. How the hell is any other country going to take over England? I understand you anger against him for suggesting india take over nepal but look we have been expressing that fear for a long time. If we dont pull ourselves together someone else might. We are now asking india for budgetory aid, the prime minister needs to go to india to get their blessing as soon as gets to the post, major decisions are already done with only india's consents. Well, i do not think that the SPA is going to make anything better in that regards,
Prism, you gotta a tinted spectrum. Man, why can't you look beyond. No wonder you give your two bits like a jilted lover.
Monrachy is an institution, remember, and I see you plagued by the unenviable trait so natural among us- i.e., you see ticks in others but cannot see buffalo, I should say elephant, in your room. Keep on being acrimonous and soon enuff the reds will have the last word and they will block wharever spectrum you'd want to emit.
By the way- Happy Dashain everyone.
I never suggested that India govern Nepal. It was a question -a rhetorical question -to express frustration with the lack of leadership that i repeatedly mention.
Would it make you feel better if i had said the United Nations?
The saddest part, in my eyes at least, is that you chose to ignore the point and concentrate on the word 'India'
The SPA have made the fatal mistake of not knowing their enemy.
Only a blind man can not see that the biggest danger that Nepal faces at this moment in time is the spread of repressive violence by the Maoists.
The King was politically naive and ill advised. I believe that the only people who benefited after 'People Movement II' were the Maoists. Indeed judging by their numbers on the street from people who were there in the throngs of it all -it was the Maoists who helped orchastrate it all.
In the end, the peoples movement was a damp squib.
The SPA are neither united, decisive or strong. They do not have the backing of the military, the king and now find themselves totally reliant upon the Maoists to play ball.
They negotiate from a position of weakness because they have no real mandate other than to negotiate with the Maoists.
The political parties are no more legitimate than any other political force in Nepal and could justifiably be described as an 'oligarchy.' There is nothing democratic about them at all.
They posture as democrats but they govern like autocrats.
I just think it is deluded to place your faith in the SPA just because they are the only option at this time.
Where is the democracy in that?
I think people like Bhudai and Prism would do well to realise that although most of us here think the SPA unable to solve the present crisis-I am sure none of us on this Blog hope that they fail.
Indeed I will happily eat humble pie if i am proved wrong.
I just don't think i am wrong about this and i can see no end to the problems facing Nepal so long as you have leaders like Koirala, Deuba, Nepal and Gyanendra.
I am waiting for someone to just go and shoot Prachanda and Baburam. In Hindi language there is a saying, "na rahega baans, na bajegi baansuri"...literal meaning "when there won't be the bamboo,the flute wouldn't play".
After all Prachanda and Baburam are WANTED for their crimes against Humanity and it ain't matter what the spammed proclamations of SPAM say regarding them.
So who has the balls here to kill the terrorists?
The King should take control, and just ORDER a SHOOT at SIGHT for Prchanda and Baburam whenever and wherever they are seen in Nepal and anyone who speaks in support of Maoists be it any Indian or Nepali should be branded as terrorist (traitor to the Nation) and should be thrown into jail (if in Nepal)...and if he/she is in India and tries to enter Nepal he/she should be immediately captured.
To set things right, the King has the every constitutional and legal right to declare the SPA people (who have entered into conspiracy with the M) as terrorists.
Wake up, smell the beans, and know your rules and laws of the game. Those petty so-declared martyrs who died in Mob and Goon movement were mostly poor Indian Muslims and declared state terrorists. Just put these things clear.
And the King going on African safari...hahahahaha...he as the head of the state can go just about ANYWHERE...even on moon...
just as GIRIJA baba and his family and his goons are now spending it everywhere on the planet...bloody assholes.
and wow, I am still mesmerized by some of the speeches he (HM Gyanendra) gave at Dhaka, Tunis, etc. One of the most brilliant speeches (by any world politician) of our times.
I am too good at this game, so just don't even come near me SPAMmming bastards.
Add to my above comments.
Ian,
You are just as much unwanted here as Moriarity, Ian Martin, Bloomfield (and his new counterpart), Shiv Mukherjee, any and every person of Indian nationality, the internationl goons of NGOs, etc. Would you mind keeping your blabberings and problems to yourself?
Half of the problems of this world are created by the West and the other half by people like us who follow these assholes. Idicocracy has just no end.
- Anon is Anon
Nope. Ian is very much wanted here.
His last post at 3:53 was clear, lucid and on target, says blogdai.
Your comments are equally good, so it surprises me that you'd want to get rid of a skilled commentator like Ian.
This is a damn good thread from all of you. Hold on to your emotions, prove your points and we'll maintain this high level.
-=blogdai
B:
We all agree the SPA have failed to divilery on their promises etc.
So what? What do you propose? Tell me an alternative form of government, you think would be successful and I would GLADLY accept it.
Ian,
It's very easy to say that we need new leaders. I think everyone is Nepal is aware that the current leadership is terrible. But new leaders don't just emerge out of the blue. I had some hope of Gagan Thapa but I don't hear anything about him these days. Why isn't he protesting against the autrocities of the Maoists like he was protesting the King's takeover.
It's sad but new leaders just don't have an opportunity to emerge. The education system is not good and any talent we have are standing outside foregin embassies.
Gagan Thapa is a "one trick pony." He's good at protests and harsh rhetoric but is probably unable to function under the rule of law as inherent in a democracy. You haven't heard from him because there are no big student protests in the works. Why? No SPA financial backing, that's why.
There are lots of good REAL voices being heard. Blogs are good for that. Scroll through our postings here and you might see the future of Nepali political discourse.
They are out there, they just need a big financial and political machine to back them.
-=blogdai
Mr. B (does it stand for baby?),
Look the state of UK is fine.
Rather than lecture you on irony and rhetorical questions, I will rather let your baby comments pass.
I have not advocated for removal of the institution of monarchy, that is the Maoist's position. But the way you guys are defending monarchy is so pathetic that you strengthen Maoists position for removing it altogether. Rather than arguing for reforming the monarchy, you are being defensive about it. And you know that going forward reforming the monarchy is the only way to retain it, if at all.
Even the RPP is no longer defending monarchy, wake up you guys. Your arguing like Tulsi Giri and Kamal Thapa is the best way to ensure that monarchy goes out for good.
The likes of you sarki ko choros need to wake up to the new reality and come up with new vision rather than with mere suggestions of going back to the past. Conciliatory and liberal leaders like B.P. Koirala were shut-out and jailed by monarchists. Now you have to deal with Maoists, turns out.
Ian, there is no point in dwelling with would-haves. Do you expect autocracies to come up with experienced and able democratic leader? We haven't had even a generation of democratic experiment in Nepal. It's been over 300 years in Britain and you still see in-party fighting. May be the problem is not the parties, but your viewpoint.
Who can govern better than whom is irrelevant. Nepal is in no postition to be governed.
Blogdai will concede this: neither SPA nor the King have the ability to effectively govern Nepal; but this is a moot point.
Rule of law, equal representation and democratic processes are not present. I'm sorry, the factional in-fighting and pseudo-warlordism we see today, do not a government make.
The many fractions and competing interests in Nepal make national unity impossible. Without a sense of national unity, there can be no national governing body. National unity is a product of respecting a political system chosen. This system, ANY system requires the participation of its citizens to realize any kind of national vision.
And what is national vision? It is a plan for the future that is supposed to be advanced by those elected by citizens to accomplish the task. Seen any of that in Nepal lately?
Above all, you cannot have any of these things until a foundation is established. A climate of trust must be created to the point that people will surrender their individual interests to maintain this trust and further the goals of the system chosen for the benefit of all. You will never see this in Nepal until impediments for the establishment of this trust are addressed and eliminated.
The single biggest impediment to national unity and governmental trust in Nepal is Maoism--period.
Ask yourself, did the administrations of the past 10 years under Koirala and Deuba ever bother to adress Maoism through mandates or policy initiatiatives? The answer is a resounding NO. Not much of a way to build trust in a government, is it?
G. understood the Maoist threat, made his poorly planned effort and failed. But at least he addressed the issue and recognized its significance.
So, forget who can govern whom until you clean house and make Nepal and Nepalis ready to be governed.
There will be no effective government until the Maoists are dealt with and eliminated.
There will be no national unity until the Maoists are dealt with and eliminated.
There will be no fully sovereign nation known as Nepal until the Maoists are dealt with and eliminated.
-=blogdai
Blogdai:
I agree the Maoists are indeed are a serious threat.
However, I wish to dispute several statements you made in your post.
The political leaders did in fact want to use the RNA to deal with the Maoists. However, King Birendra refused to unlease the army. Also don't forget that the infamous operation Kilo Sierra was authorized by the political parties.
How much of a threat the Moaists were going to become no one knew. So you cannot put all the blame on Girija, Deuba etc. But yes there were some instances, particularly I remember one where Baburam was very keen on negotiations. Deuba completly ignored him and went off to New Delhi on a state visit.
But yes these people are incapable of governing.
Happy Dashain.
I have got a solution for this mess and messor (SPA & Maoist). All we need to do is empower citizens to bear arm, like 2nd amendment. The rational is- as we seem to have lost faith in everything- all we can do now is self protect and be protected. Do you think I'm off to the right- naw, just being sensible.
If you wait for SPA to deliver, it will be like waiting for moon to fall and if you sympathize with Reds, then battle may be won but war not, so the vicious cycle continues. The only way out is "right to bear arm."
If the following news is coming from India funded Kantipur, you should take it seriously. Which other country except Nepal would allow a foreign country's police to come into it's territory? Not to mention other news of India capturing Nepal's terrirtories every moment even as we speak.
Waiting for a statement from SPAMmers (and their goons in the parliament) on this.
Indian cops torch Nepalis’ huts
BY SHIVA PURI
RAUTAHAT, Sept 24 - Entering Nepali villages in the name of nabbing a criminal gang, Indian police last week burnt down houses of Nepalis in Jokaha VDC along the Nepal-India border in Rautahat district. The Indian security men also took away two motorbikes of the locals.
Villagers were terrified after the Indian security men entered the village and started firing in the area last Friday night. Assuming they were being attacked by dacoits, the locals, had fired back in retaliation.
The Indian police set fire to the huts after the exchange of fire that continued for hours, said locals. The police led by Arun Singh of Chainpur police station in Kundwa of India had burnt down the houses of Ashok Singh and Yogendra Singh of Jokaha-9, Jaynagar. Goods worth hundreds of thousands rupees had been destroyed by fire, said victim Ashok Singh.
Arun Singh, in-charge of the Chainpur police station said they visited the Nepali villages in search of notorious criminal Muna Singh of Muzaffarpur and another kidnapper of Sitamadi of India acting on a tip-off that said the criminals were "hiding" in Jokaha village.
However, he denied committing any excesses over there. Singh said the houses might have caught fire during the exchange of fire.
Filing complaints at the district administration, the villagers stated that the Indians "looted" two motorbikes, mobile set, gas cylinder, furniture, along with other goods from the locals' houses.
Madhav Prasad Ojha, chief district officer, informed that they would take up the matter with Indian officials.
Posted on: 2006-09-23 23:20:50 (Server Time)
Mr. Prism,
You are so predictable. Again, i am a royalist. If only you knew any other way of defending yourself. Amazing how i become pathetic, loser, moron, idiot as soon as i do not agree with you. However, i have nothing to say to you as you have revealed youself quite enough.
Mr. Pundit,
The collaboration of the SPA with the maoists itself was bound to create problems. This was said loud and clear by many. But then you say, "tell me what we do not know." Most of the times, problems can be solved by what we already know than what we do not.
Ok, my solution is: The spa stand united with the king and the army. Go back to 1990 constitution. I am not saying the referrendum on the king should not happen. The future of the king can still be determined by the referrendum or the election for a CA, no problems. During the CA elections, both the NA and the Maoists can still be camped and monitored by the UN. But for the moment the spa need to unite with the KING against the maoists. Stop criticizing the NA. If they need to be democratized, let the state of war be over first. Even if we went back to 1990 constitution, i think most of us will agree, the king is in no state to do anything stupid. With both the king and NA on SPA's side, they will have a much more leverage than the maoists and more pressure can be applied on them to bring them back into the mainstream. What we also need to realize is, they have infact, tried the mainstream politics before and decided that it was not good enuff. So, there is no reason to trust them. If the spa want the king out they can still do it through referrendum or CA. If they could ally with the terrorists to defeat the king, i think they should now ally with the king and the army to defeat the maoists who are threatening a take over. You must have heard about the mp who got shot in siraha. Look, the law and order is getting out of hand. Pretty soon, this government will have to accept that it can not provide, security to even the big leaders and politicians let alone the people. What will happen if the government fails to protect its people and leaders? Of course, people like prism will only see a royalist in me and even if i am so what? Let small grudges like these go and fight the common enemy of the nation. Let us pressuring the maoists into the mainstream and get rid of the king if people of the country decides to do so.
B- you said it right. Only rational thing to do and to make stand on is on adhereing to 1990 constitution. All the confusion will end and betchya in hearts of Hearts SPA (Stained Political Alliance) will want the same- rationally speaking.
B said:
Let us pressuring the maoists into the mainstream and get rid of the king if people of the country decides to do so.
Now that sounds more like it. As I stated in my earlier post, resolving the Maoists problem is the most serious agenda. Lamenting on SPA's lack of leadership only strengthens the Maoists. And how do we deal with the Maoists? Since everyone has agreed that there is no military solution to the conflict, let's engage them politically and intellectually and prove to them how vacuous and counter-productive their idealogy is.
Those who put SPA and the Maoists are missing the point and only shooting themselves in the foot. The trick is to separate and isolate the Maoist idealogues who still dream of a communist republic and defeat them with ideas.
We can deal with the King's excesses and SPA's corruption as secondary problems down the road.
Look, i am not saying there should not be a referrendum or election to a ca and i am not suggesting that the maoists should not be brought into the government. Infact, they should join the government, without arms of course, but the government should always have more chips than the maoists. Maybe, if the SPA are still a bit skeptical about the king then, some of the powers (executive powers and the army) can still be taken away from him. But i do not see an alternative to the united front against the maoists. I am sure this will also make the royalist army support the SPA and the SPA will also get the public support of all the supporters of constitutional monarchy. And after all, if the maoist problem is solved, whether by negotiations or militarily, there remains no excuses or reasons for the king to be involved in politics anyway.
B:
The King and the SPA was united with the SPA and the army before the Feb 1st takeover.
Blogdai - I really don't think there is a military solution. I don't understand why people still think there is. The RNA was unleased for years but they were simply not able to achieve any strategic grounds. The Maoists leadership was at large, they controled much of western Nepal and their autrocities were continuing unabated. Really what was the army able to do?
B, that's were you are wrong. You say that we should not worry about reforming the army now. That is a big mistake. If the army is not reformed, any potential confrontation with the Maoists is going to be just as unsuccessful.
The gross human rights abuses, dissapearences etc. also does not help. The NA needs to be transformed into a professional fighting force that is capable of gathering good intelligence and wining the hearts and minds of the people (particularly the villagers). Only then will it be able to wage an effective fight aganist the Maoists. When you have a situation where there rural villagers resent the army as much as the Maoists, you cannot gather good intelligence and count on the coperation of those folks - which is cruial.
I agree with B on this.
You can not invite terrorists into an interim government without them first disarming. Of course this requires a process of negotiation on both sides.
A confidence building measures go -the Maoists have repeatedly broken the peace as the latest INSEC report acknowledges -and it is difficult for any one to negotiate with such an unreliable, inconsistant opposite.
The SPA's position is clear. It needs to accommodate the Maoists without comprimising its own position but as its own position rests upon negotiating with the Maoists it is inevitable that it does so.
Indeed the machinations of the Maoists have served to make this the SPA's sole function in the present crisis.
Thus, if the SPA would like the Maoists to join an interim government it is imperative that they do so without the threat of indiscrimnate violence.
In short, the SPA need to present a unified front to the Maoists. They can not afford to concentrate their energies on pushing the King to the periphery of power. They need the King to participate and they need civil society to push with them for peace.
The Maoists are terrorists and if you can not negotiate with them then you need an 'iron wall' to reduce their power base and make them submit to the will of the state. This requires training the RNA to work effectively and to reduce the number of human rights abuses. Bhudai is right, reform is necessary to mobilise an effective military operation against a terrorist organisation that exists to perpetuate violence.
Yet the RNA would do well to learn the lessons of history. Many wars have been lost -despite overwhelming odds- due to the failure of armies to win the hearts and minds of the people. The state needs to active in its interventions and needs to be seen to be making a difference to the plight of the people who have to live under the Maoist threat.
Again, a fragmented divided state with little leadership is unlikely to be able to do any of the above. The SPA must do more to be inclusive or they will be swept out of power.
Look Mr. Pundit,
I am not saying that no army should be punished for their abuses, no. The culprits should be punished and brought to justice. Unlike the maoists who today have a lincense to kill, extort and abduct innocent people, i do believe the army should be made responsible for their actions. However, what i meant was that we should stop criticizing the army as an institution. Stop saying that they are one of the regressive forces or they could do a coup or that all they have been doing in the past is raping and murdering innocent nepali citizens.
When you say there are no military solution to this problem, you are only making the maoist stronger. As,the maoist would be thinking that the government would lose as soon as they walk out on the negotiations. The things, military force can be used to force the maoists into negotiations and compromises. At the moment you are saying "the maoists can not lose and the military can not win" which is not the right message to be sent out. Have you seen any army winning hearts and minds of the people? they win wars not hearts and minds. I am sorry, but i think you watch too much CNN or Fox News. Although, i think the army culprits should also be brought to justice, i do not think any army can be the angels you want them to be. I hope i do not need to get into the details of this.
Now, pre feb1 take over, you say the SPA was united with the king and the army. I do not know anything of that sort. The king was busy manipulating the fragile political situation (i still support constitutional monarchy, remember) created by the SPA and the SPA was busy fighting amongst themselves and amassing huge sums of taxpayers money. I hope you would not disagree with this. Very little attention was being given to the maoists. Even the republic UML did not miss the opportunity to join the royal government. At least, in that sense you would have to respect GPK to some extent. The monarchy was trying to outdo the spa and the spa was trying to outdo themselves and they never believed that the FEB1 would actually happen. Although, most of the Nepalis were praying or hoping for it (although the king did not do well to fulfill our expectations). Neither the King nor the SPA feared extinction but today the situation is different. A maoist take over would mean the end of both the SPA and the monarchy (and maybe most of the NA too). Hence, the need of unity now is different and more vital.
Now, i would even go as far as, government should declare all the soldiers who died in combat with the terrorists as martyrs. I know the top brass of the army have always been the royal stooge but that does not mean we disrespect the soldiers who honestly gave their lives in the name of the country. I know even a lot of policemen have died fighting the maoists on the orders of GPK. I say honor them. I do not believe the lower level soldiers fought against the maoist and gave their lives as a sacrifice for the king and if you think so, well what can i say. But that would also send a strong message to the maoists that we stand united or are willing to unite when the nation itself is on the line. Also that, there are heroes on our side too, who are willing to give their lives away when our nation demands it. They call their soldiers who lost their lives fighting the army martyrs, dont they? I would suggest our home minister or the pm himself, go around the country (much like moriarty) to get stock of the situation in our country. Visit the barracks, talk to the soldiers and so on. The cease fire has not stopped the maoists building up their strength has it? they are still recruitting and training are they not?
Look you need to take off your "i hate army" glasses and come back to reality. Armies are no angels and that is why they are always the last resort. If they were capable of winning the hearts and minds (this is george bush's line) of the people, why would we need the police. Why not just have one happy unit with AK47's arround their back and helping the blind and the needy. And should we expect from them that even though, thousands of them are armed not one person would misuse the power that they carry in their arms. Look prosecute the culprits (army) but do not expect them to win hearts and minds (it is not possible and the americans have proved that in IRAQ) as they are better at blowing them up.
Where did Bhudai say that the army should win the hearts and minds of the people?
You write a lot B but do you read a lot?
Anonymous,
I think you should remain anonymous and read the following comment by Mr. Pundit.
At 8:15 AM, September 24, 2006, Bhudai Pundit said...
B:
The King and the SPA was united with the SPA and the army before the Feb 1st takeover.
Blogdai - I really don't think there is a military solution. I don't understand why people still think there is. The RNA was unleased for years but they were simply not able to achieve any strategic grounds. The Maoists leadership was at large, they controled much of western Nepal and their autrocities were continuing unabated. Really what was the army able to do?
B, that's were you are wrong. You say that we should not worry about reforming the army now. That is a big mistake. If the army is not reformed, any potential confrontation with the Maoists is going to be just as unsuccessful.
The gross human rights abuses, dissapearences etc. also does not help. The NA needs to be transformed into a professional fighting force that is capable of gathering good intelligence and wining the hearts and minds of the people (particularly the villagers). Only then will it be able to wage an effective fight aganist the Maoists. When you have a situation where there rural villagers resent the army as much as the Maoists, you cannot gather good intelligence and count on the coperation of those folks - which is cruial.
There is time and place for eveything. And I say, time is not for intellectual mumbles and jargons. I have said it before if you take the road of being analytical, its never ending. Thats the past time of fools, anyways. Its really bears no consequencies rather just a afterthoughts.
So how about "right to bear arm." this is where we are now and its getting late. I can start the litany of things that are wrong or should be, should not be, who should, sshould not be etc., but its only gonna get you back to square one. Lets not be tragedy-in-waiting by intellectualizing too much. Time will come for that in histroy books.
Anonymous,
I dont know man, you are certainly riding the extremes. I do not think however that right to arms is the right way to go about things. Nonetheless, at this present moment in Nepal, everyone has rights to do whatever they feel like with exception of the king.
All bastards and bitches. Osama bin Laden after killing about 3,000 in total moved a hand of friendship towards US recently and the US rejected it.
And these Bastards Maoists should be put into the government after they have killed 15,000. Right, that would be over your dead body.
SPAMmers, belive you me. You (and your SPAMming politicians) would be hunted down one by one and KILLED.
IF USA OR THE WEST ACCEPTS OSAMA, IF INDIA ACCEPTS MUJHAIDDINS OF KASHMIR THEN AND ONLY THEN CAN NEPAL EVEN THINK ABOUT ACCEPTING MAOISTS. Bastards don't talk again if you support Maoists for ruling Nepal in any form.
Calm down anonymous,
Look no need to spew hatred here. I do not like the spamers either but please do not defeat youself by bringing yourself down to this level. The maoists will be accepted if they accept our values or we will have hell to pay. Just as simple as that. So chill, man. Relax.
B:
It’s very difficult to have a debate with you when you get so emotional, defensive and you don’t bother to read what the other person has said. You are so hyped up and defensive, you just automatically assume things and start to go off on a rant that you yourself cooked up.
I didn’t say that I hated the army. Nor did I say anywhere that I want the army punished, I don’t like the soldiers, I am criticizing them as an institution etc. Where the hell did you get all that? Listen if you like talking to yourself; you should address yourself in the beginning so everyone is clear that post is directed towards yourself.
What I did say and what I believe is that the NA needs some major institutional reforms if it is to become a solid and effective fighting force. The lower level soldiers need to be educated in human rights issues and they needed to be better trained. There also needs to be a major change in the top brass. The RNA has long been a playground for the Rana Shah aristocracy. As a result we have many people at the top who are there as a result of their surname rather than field experience and merit. This has had an impact on the RNA’s campaign against the Maoists. That is why major strategic blunders were made and the RNA was largely unsuccessful.
“Have you seen any army winning hearts and minds of the people? they win wars not hearts and minds. I am sorry, but i think you watch too much CNN or Fox News.”
This is exactly the kind of thinking we don’t need. B, this is not a Rambo movie! This is a guerrilla war and it cannot be won with brute military might. I don’t know if you read the news at all, but you have heard of Israel’s fight against Hizbollah. Israel’s has one of the most efficient and well equipped armies in the world yet they could not root out Hizbullah.
To fight an effective war against the Maoists, you need good human intelligence. That is the KEY! And the only way you are going to get good human intelligence is if the people in the villages look at the army as a liberating force that has come to protect and fight for them. When the army is just as abusive and tyrannical as the Maoists, you cannot get them to risk their lives and provide valuable information.
B, you need to look back and see that the RNA was UNSUCCESSFUL!!!! You need to admit that major changes need to be made in the future for a potential confrontation with the Maoists. I hope it will not come to that and a peaceful settlement can be reached but I agree that if it can’t we will need to resort to force.
I don't know what this anonymou's problem is.
If he/she is that hardcore, why don't you go a shoot baburam and prachanda in the head? They aren't hiding anymore so it won't be difficult to find them.
You find me the gun Bhudai and i will do it,
Anonymous:
In all seriosuness I don't think that will not solve the problem.
The Maoist will go back to the jungles and we will have to witness more bloodshed. As far as we can, we really should try to reach a peaceful settlement.
I don't think we need more Nepalis to die!
Interesting opinion
Ripples of the Thai Coup
By Preeti Koirala
The sudden bloodless coup staged by the Thai Army has sent ripples to Nepal even though we are miles separate from one another and don't even belong to the same region. But Thailand has seen seventeen coups since its birth and therefore it is nothing unnatural in that country especially when an incumbent government is widely perceived to be corrupt and unpopular and when civil unrest paralyzes daily life in Bangkok. That is why military takeovers are almost always bloodless in Thailand. Each time they carry with them considerable amount of public sympathy and the general people take it as an inevitable political development when the politicians fail to address the country's problems. The 72 year old Thai King, a revered and a skilful monarch, has seen 17 coups, 20 Prime Ministers and 16 Constitutions in his 60 years of reign but has at all times steered his country in the steady path of economic development. Even during trying times of communist insurgencies rocking the entire East Asian countries like Vietnam, Cambodia, Philippines, Malaya and Laos; Thailand was successful in guarding off the plague of communism by overtly tying itself up with the United States and acquiring massive American military assistance to meet the communist threat.
In this particular case, Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra was tangled in several messy corruption scandals. According to his opponents - who highlighted his intolerance of criticism and his failure to end separatist violence in the country's south, his fall can be traced back to his family's decision at the start of 2006 to sell its shares in one of Thailand's biggest telecom groups, Shin Corp. The sale, which netted family members and others $1.9bn, angered many urban Thais, who grumbled that the family avoided paying tax and passed control of an important national asset to Singaporean investors. He also has shares in an English football club, which sparkled a separate series of controversy last year. His entire family has been linked in some financial controversy or the other. A man known for his arrogance, dictatorial characteristics and overconfidence, he proved himself incapable of controlling an insurgency in the Muslim dominated South of the country.
With street protests mounting on him to resign, Mr Thaksin called a snap general election for April but the main opposition parties boycotted the polls and many voters chose to register a "no vote". Several unopposed ruling party candidates failed to achieve the 20 percent of votes needed to become MPs, leaving the parliament unable to convene. In essence, he was a duly elected Prime Minister for the namesake and Thailand was a parliamentary democracy only for answering correctly in quiz contests but nothing more.
The reaction of the international community to this event was also particularly "soft". They know that Thailand cannot be bullied as it is an economic heavyweight in ASEAN. The U.S., a long-term ally of Thailand fell short of calling for a re-instatement of the Thaksin government. India on its part only "noted" the evolving situation in Thailand and said that it "attached great importance to relations with a country with which India has ancient civilizational affinities and strong bonds of friendship and cooperation."
While the Thai soldiers patrolling Bangkok streets are shown being greeted with flowers by locals and every international news channel is reporting that the common man seems largely happy to see the end of a long fraudulent misrule; Nepali politicians are miffed by the event. Prime Minister G P Koirala denounced the military takeover and said that such an event was unlikely to happen in Nepal. But General Secretary of the CPN (UML) Madhav Kumar Nepal said that a military coup could not be ruled out here just like in Thailand if the present transitional period continued to remain indefinitely. Several lawmakers in the Lower House took special time to criticize the Thai Army's actions and warned everybody in Nepal to be vigilant. They have hilariously demanded that a special resolution to this effect be passed by the parliament as if the Thai Generals are going to be dreadfully scared by a bizarre decree passed by the re-instated parliament of Nepal.
The current Seven Party Alliance (SPA) government was formed after the successful culmination of a people's movement. Why on earth is there a need to be so afraid of an impending coup if the present seven party alliance considers itself popular amongst the people of Nepal? Every newspaper, almost every speaker in programs organized in the last few days, from ministers to political party leaders and from coffee shop tete-e`-tetes to conversations in blog sites refer to the Thai coup and somehow draw parallels between what happened in Thailand and what is happening in Nepal. This anxiety disorder syndrome prevalent amongst our politicians actually shows how weak and fragile they are deep inside. But this anxiety is stemming from somewhere and everyone knows that a very strong undercurrent is flowing beneath. Following are some of the glaring mistakes that the current ruling establishment has locked itself into in the past 4 months in power:
The (Maoist) tactics is clear. Go into the government, set the date of the CA elections and then massively mobilize guerrillas with weapons to terrorize the voters to cast ballot in their favour. They were the ones first to call for the U.N. to be involved in facilitation/mediation of the conflict now it is they that have backtracked on the arms management proposal set forth by the U.N.
1. The re-instated parliament has declared itself sovereign and cut all powers and privileges of not only the monarch but also the independent judiciary. But the Constitution of the Kingdom of Nepal-1990 has not been abrogated nor the interim Constitution announced. Hearing on a writ petition challenging the legality of the "Historic" parliamentary declaration is being overseen in the Supreme Court and the apex court on Friday has given a show-cause notice to the government and the parliament. A negative verdict on it literally means that all the resolutions passed by this re-instated House will come tumbling down like a house of cards.
2. The parliament has left no stone unturned to censure, criticize, humiliate and disgrace the Nepal Army. Dishonouring the security forces have become sort of a fashion among the leaders of the alliance and one section of the media. Nowhere in the world does the incumbent Deputy Prime Minister who has his body-guard coming from the Army rebuke the same institution and nowhere do numerous committees and sub-committees of the parliament repeatedly call the Chief of the Army Staff to question on almost everything trivial-from road construction projects to army welfare funds.
3. The new Army Regulation Act states that there will be an appellate court judge overseeing the cases of court martial indictments. This is not done even in the United States of America or India-the two biggest democracies in the world where the army is under civilian control.
4. The Queen of Britain is the supreme commander in chief of the British Armed Forces and so is the President of India, the supreme commander in chief of the Indian Army. There has never been a coup in either of these two countries. But in Thailand the Prime Minister was constitutionally the supreme commander of the Thai Armed Forces. By removing Nepal's monarch who was the safety valve between the army and the government from nearly three centuries, what the present dispensation has effectively done - is endanger itself.
5. Everybody is sensing that there is total lawlessness not only in the capital but also in the major cities of the country due to the heavy presence of Maoist militia trying to abduct, extort or simply take advantage arising from an already volatile situation. In the words of premier Koirala, they are vying to put ghee into the fire. It has almost become an anarchic situation in Kathmandu with daily traffic jams, routine protests and demonstrations and increase in petty thefts, day-light robberies and kidnapping of children. On a particular case of an eight year old body kidnapped from Koteswor, none other than Madhav Nepal has publicly said that the "P.A. of the Home Minister is involved in the kidnapping", which is why the boy hasn't been found. The Nepal Police, which should have been extra vigilant seems these days to be totally demoralized and disheartened to carry out its duties.
By removing Nepal's monarch who was the safety valve between the army and the government from nearly three centuries, what the present dispensation has effectively done - is endanger itself.
6. The US ambassador to Nepal James F. Moriarty met Prime Minister Girija Prasad Koirala and shared experiences of his recent tour of the mid and far-western regions of the country, where he found that the law and order situation had deteriorated. According to reports, Moriarty expressed his concern over privileges being given to the Maoists by the government and told the prime minister that they could pose a threat to democracy as the Maoists were still indulging in extortion, abduction and intimidation in rural areas. Moriarty, in fact, has spoken in no uncertain terms that the induction of the Maoists into the interim government without they giving up arms would pose a serious question mark on Nepal's standing amongst the community of nations. In essence, he means to say that we would be in the category of the Hezbollah, Hamas, Cuba or North Korea.
7. The Rayamajhi Commission has been enthusiastically calling even junior level police, armed police and Nepal army personnel on their suspected involvement in suppressing the people's movement. If the commission actually prosecutes hundreds of these officers from the security forces, the entire security structure of the state will go hay-wire which will benefit none but the Maoists.
8. On the other hand, the Maoists don't seem to be in any mood to lay down their weapons for a peaceful and successful holding of the Constituent Assembly elections. Their tactics is clear. Go into the government, set the date of the CA elections and then massively mobilize guerrillas with weapons to terrorize the voters to cast ballot in their favour. They were the ones first to call for the U.N. to be involved in facilitation/mediation of the conflict now it is they that have backtracked on the arms management proposal set forth by the U.N.
Furthermore, the fourth conference of the Coordination Committee of Maoist Parties and Organizations of South Asia (CCOMPOSA) held in August in an undisclosed location somewhere in India has also vowed to "deepen and extend the links between genuine Maoists of the region". This was stated in the political resolution adopted by the conference. Contrary to what they have agreed with the government on the road to peace, Nepali Maoists - in the joint resolution - have vowed together with their counterparts in the region to "turn South Asia into a flaming field of Maoist revolutions". In this whole rigmarole, they appear to be further energized in their final aim of a totalitarian communist state.
Put all these pieces together in the puzzle and then we glaringly see the vulnerability of the present government – totally unable to tame the Maoists while at the same time afraid of the King. Instead what the government can and must do is to opt for a real reconciliation with all political forces of the country, accept constitutional monarchy and multi-party democracy as being the twin pillars of the solidity of the Nepali state, start valuing and respecting the institution of the army and then on negotiate with the Maoists to end the decade long insurgency.
In these few months of negotiations with the rebels, it has been amply clear that the government has conceded a mile while the Maoists have not even given an inch. Such a sloppy style of negotiations will lead to utter disaster and ease the way for a Maoist takeover. In the past it has always been the Maoists that have broken the ceasefire and gone back to the jungle. With so much of international backing and popular support, the present government need not be timid while talking tough with the rebels neither hesitant to break the ceasefire if the Maoists continue to violate the ceasefire code of conduct.
The ruckus from "right to bear arm" is case in point. The minute we talk about arms which by the way does not mean going beserk and blowing everything up. People like Pundit talks about hardcore, as if I am the proposing to blast my way through this hell, this cannot be farther from the truth. Now, Pundit you cry your hearts out by saying Maoist did this, scourge and all but tell as a layman, not as you assume to be, how to fight this menace which has spread its tentacles all around you by threat, intimidation, extortion, killing, raping, murdering and herding school children to fight for their cause. Tell me, please. I do not want to read your arguments based on disparaging history nor Henry Kissinger's type theory and dissertations. You fight sword with sword, not by throwing tulips, am I right?
If you were living in Nepal, I assume you are in U.S., that you'd agree to "right to bear arms," situation as such calls for it. But that does not mean I will be blazing guns to get my means. Just come off it- real situation demands real actions. Why be so engrossed in debate that really bears no consequences, like your comments and such.
Do read Khmer rouge and many people like you were there waving flags to welcome Pol Pot. Now their skull remains in a morbid museum. Is that what you want. Get real, buddy.
Cannot sit in the fence and just spew words from the wise. This ain't the time nor the place as of now.
Mr. Pundit,
It was me who said the army culprits should be punished. I am not suggesting that it was indeed you who has been criticizing the instituition of NA (if it felt that way to you i apoligize) but the SPAM as a whole. I was talking about the solution and of course was talking about what the SPA (in my opinion) should do. Look, the reforms can be done but without hurting the NA in public. You know, like it is not always wise for the parents to yell at or criticize their children infront of all the relatives. Maybe it would do good to go home and talk (or even yell) in the privacy of home where the child does not feel humiliated. Similarly, maybe the SPA should not be so vocal (public) about the army as an institution. For gods sake, even the maoist are demanding the democratization of the army now, whatever that may mean.
Look, i do not know what you mean by me getting so emotional about things. Well, maybe i am. Those who serve in the army and other security forces who put their lives on the line (not the top brass of course) come from poor families. They put their lives on the line so that we feel safe at home. They put their lives on the line so that ours are saved. They suffer so that we would not have to. And yet they dont even get an ounce of respect. Now, that does make me emotional.
Look, you need to stop worrying about who is winning the debate. Concentrate on what others are trying to say (all the good points) ignore the ones that are not as good. That is why i like discussing with you (i am willfully avoiding the word debate here). Although i do not agree with most of your views, there are many things i have learnt from you.
The reason i used "you hate army" line was becuase, you consistently claim that until now the NA has been serving the king (may be not in exact words)instead of the people. I agree, the top brasses were royal stooges and i agree that it should change. But do you know what a life is worth. There were so many security personel who gave their lives away (and they were not necessarily all ranas or shahs) so that we could sleep well at night. Now that is sacrifice. That is something we cower to do. Now, i just do not like people generalising the whole institution of NA. Reform yes, but give them some dignity. Give them credit for the sacrifices they have made. Honor them. Like i said, not all of them were in it to serve the king. Infact, i am sure most of them were / are not in it to serve the king. This i am not saying because you said this or you said that. I am saying this because, the SPA needs to say it. They need to accept it.
And come on "wining the hearts and minds of the people", what do you think the maoists are trying to do? Look, the armies are not trained that way whether you talk about maoists or the NA. I am sure prachanda would also like to win the hearts and minds but his army thinks otherwise. It is hard for the people to trust armies with guns. With guns there are accidents with accidents come skepticism. Look, Wars are always ugly, if hearts and minds could be won with wars, think what would the political parties do for their election campaign. At best our army can be (like you said) better trained on human right issues and so on but war creates monsters and monsters win wars. Because if you start thinking what is right and wrong, or moral or immoral or whatever in that direction during a war, you are a gonner.
Yes, the NA has not been successful so far but wars of this nature can not be won in a year. Just look at Sri lanka, India, Bangladesh, Iraq and afghanistan (with worlds superpower involvement)and so on. First, we need to realize that we live in one of the poorest countries in the world that fact can not and should not be denied. Just because, a few of us have access to education abroad, or cable tv or internet access or access to any education at all, still does not take away the fact that we are indeed the poorest country in the world. People who think human rights as an issue, or animal rights as an issue or judicial system as an issue are not in the majority here. Our priorities (not yours or mine personally)are different here. People are struggling to make ends meet. The army who goes out to war is thinking "what the kcuf is going to happen to my two girls and a wife when i am dead". look this does not happen in developed countries. The basice requirements are basic where as in our country they are luxuries. We think differently because we lack social security like in western countries and values of western civilization can not be so easily imported and implemented in our country. Dying for nepali soldier means a lot because he may also carry the burden of his entire family.
But may be i am getting a bit carried away here. But look, the need of the hour is unity. I can guarantee you that the seven parties will never agree on the interim constitution, or the dissolvement of the parliament. If you dont believe me, i guess time will be the judge. This is exactly what was happening before the feb 1. This the spa should avoid. Like i said, unite deal with the maoists with one voice. I am sure if the SPA is united and they speak the same language (leaving the king on the sideline but on their side), i am sure the maoists will have no option but to concede a defeat. Look, what i say does not make you any smaller or any less intelligent. SO, stop worrying about what i personally think of you or what you think of me. This is not important. I really and honestly believe that our nation is on the line here and being emoitional is the least i can do.
The ruckus from "right to bear arm" is case in point. The minute we talk about arms which by the way does not mean going beserk and blowing everything up. People like Pundit talks about hardcore, as if I am the proposing to blast my way through this hell, this cannot be farther from the truth. Now, Pundit you cry your hearts out by saying Maoist did this, scourge and all but tell as a layman, not as you assume to be, how to fight this menace which has spread its tentacles all around you by threat, intimidation, extortion, killing, raping, murdering and herding school children to fight for their cause. Tell me, please. I do not want to read your arguments based on disparaging history nor Henry Kissinger's type theory and dissertations. You fight sword with sword, not by throwing tulips, am I right?
If you were living in Nepal, I assume you are in U.S., that you'd agree to "right to bear arms," situation as such calls for it. But that does not mean I will be blazing guns to get my means. Just come off it- real situation demands real actions. Why be so engrossed in debate that really bears no consequences, like your comments and such.
Do read Khmer rouge and many people like you were there waving flags to welcome Pol Pot. Now their skull remains in a morbid museum. Is that what you want. Get real, buddy.
Cannot sit in the fence and just spew words from the wise. This ain't the time nor the place as of now.
Now the question arises that proposing "right to bear arm" will demote me to the level of goons. I do not think so. Having gun does not necessarily mean evil- its the use that defines.
Preeti comment is as always sane in irrational times.
Gotta Read this. You will stop theorizing pros and cons about "right to bear Arms."
The Anatomy of a Maoist Extortion - "Time to think of protecting ourselves"
(Courtesy: Account of events provided by eye witnesses and summarized by our local correspondent in Kathmandu)
It is time again to talk again of protecting ourselves. The Maoists behave in such rampant, undisciplined manner, people beg for protection. The government, with its outside friends, who have words and money but not much else, will not do the first thing demanded of them: protect us.
What the Maoists Call "Peace"
How do the Maoists play the game? We could choose from hundreds of episodes, but let us take only one. On August 27th, a gang of 25 ultra-Maoists - the type who spout the labels they teach the children they kidnap - the words of hatred, the false categories of "oppressed" and "oppressor" - came to Nepal Dairy, Mahaboudha, Kathmandu.
They were armed, as they always are, in violation of the agreements, but they hid the weapons in their bags. But they made sure all knew they were armed. Claiming to represent the Maoist-affiliated trade union, they barged into the kitchen, bakery, and fast food outlet and forced all present to join them in a mass meeting "to empower the workers." They were arrogant, like criminals, humiliated and insulted one and all, especially the management.
They tried to impose a Maoist trade union on the workers, although virtually all of the staff and workers agreed that such matters were internal concerns of the industry and signed the minutes that the staff could harmoniously work with the management and mutually settle any problems that arose.
This mattered nothing to the Maoists. They are trying by force to establish their union in industries and factories so that they can paralyze the government by closing down business as and when negotiations fail. They have no goal other than to disrupt business and eventually close down businesses when they need to do so to cripple the country.
As the Maoists threatened the workers, they were helpless. A complete failure of law and order meant there was no one to come to the rescue. Management decided to call the Nepal police.
A group of police came, but they also were helpless. Obeying the agreements, they did not have arms! Looking to the fast developing crowd in the courtyard, the Maoist thugs departed.
Temporarily, the problem was solved, but the Maoists vowed retaliation.
This would be only a matter of time, because there is no security, and the government has turned a blind eye to the problem that the industries are facing everyday. The concerned ministers seem more interested in photo opportunities with foreign delegates instead of pragmatically solving problems.
What are we to say when this is the present state of affairs at the grassroots level right in the heart of the capital, Kathmandu? Is it any surprise that businessmen are confused if they should continue to struggle to keep their businesses going?
Nepal Dairy, established in 1980, is the leading private dairy and food processing industry in Nepal. It has four dairy-based fast food outlets and more than 300 affiliated retail outlets. Its total investment is to the tune of 90 millions of Nepali rupees. It has given direct employment to 200 staff and indirectly supported more than 7,000 farm families by procuring milk and other agricultural products.
None of this reality seems to matter in the make-believe world of the Maoists.
Maoist Way of Doing Business
One of the Maoists, as he left, threatened one of the management, saying, "This guy should be wrapped up in a jute Bag" - the way of killing the Maoist thugs have used before, especially in our countryside. They are no different from the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, who used the same methods.
Following this incident, the owner/operator, Dr. Heramba Rajbhandary, informed the Chief District Officer and the concerned ministry. All the major political parties were informed about the incident informally. After that, Dr. Rajbhandary and son stopped taking calls from outsiders and stayed away from public places.
This did not matter, since on September 16th, the Maoist thugs returned.
Again, it was about 25 Maoists who appeared. They entered the residence of Dr. Rajbhandary in Lalitpur and thrashed him and his son while they were still at bed in the morning. Remaining female family members were helpless. Dr. Rajbhandary is 74!
Nepal Police were present, but they could not stop beating and just watched the incident helplessly. In fact, it was factory workers who came and stopped the attempted abduction of Dr. Rajbhandary and his son.
Dr. Rajbhandary is being treated at Bir Hospital. The Maoists threatened the family members not to release the information to media, but this correspondent has learned the truth from the witnesses.
The workers say there were no problems or issues between management and employees in the company. No staffs had been sacked. Problems such as existed were created by Maoists themselves in their effort to achieve their goal of control over the industry.
Some media have reported differently, but that is the way things are now in Nepal. Many media traffic in lies. I do not need to name them here.
Where does this leave us? Industry is the backbone of the country. Nepal government is not in the position to protect its citizens much less its industries. The Maoist goons have not stopped their extortion, their abductions, and their threats against people who differ with their wild ideas.
In such a situation, what hope is there for the true peace that Nepalis long for so desperately? A Constitutional Assembly can't be achieved with this type of actions and mentality by the Maoist thugs. Nepali people yearn for a lasting peace and prosperity in the country, not the imposed "peace" that the criminals have brought to our homes.
There are only several options in such circumstances.
If the Maoists want peace, their leaders must use their disciplined members to end the reign of terror being inflicted on us by the criminal elements.
If they will not do this, then the Nepal Police must again carry weapons and must be supported by the Armed Police Force and the NA.
If none of them will do this, then the people must organize and arm themselves.
"All power to the soviets," claimed the Maoist god, Lenin. Are the Maoists so foolish not to see that we, the businesses and the workers, are the "soviets"?
It is time for Nepalis to fight back. If our government will not protect us, we must protect ourselves.
(Note: The individuals who provided this report to Nepali Perspectives wish to remain anonymous for fear of reprisals. Speaking out in Nepal, as past atrocities have demonstrated, is unsafe).
Pictures associated with "The Anatomy of a Maoist Extortion"
Nepali Maoists force dairy workers to hear their indoctrination.
These pictures document how Maoist thugs intimidated and forced Nepali Dairy Staff to sit through one of their indoctrination sessions - in the middle of a working day, in broad daylight, in the heart of Kathmandu.
Note the Maoist thugs in camouflage pants, idolizing their boss Pushpa Dahal with t-shirts, donning Pushpa's smiling face.
Here's a question for SPA leaders to answer: "Are SPA district level cadre even allowed to hold rallies/meetings on their own accord or do they still need permission from their Maoist bosses? Because here's irrefutible evidence of the Maoists holding "meetings" at their will, on the SPA's turf."
Nepali Maoists force dairy workers to hear their indoctrination.
Some food for the SPA to think about...
Picture-2 - "The Anatomy of a Maoist Extortion"
This image says it all. No more need be said. Click to enlarge and study in detail, the manner in which the individuals are being held against their will.
Note once more, there is sufficient information based off these images to do one of a combination of the following:
At a minimum, launch an investigation and track down the goons in camouflage. Three faces are crystal clear in this image itself.
Obtain testimony from any number of seated individuals and then proceed to issue warrants for the arrest of those conducting the indoctrination (intimidation/unionisation) session.
All those who work to guarantee human rights in Nepal should work double-time to guarantee that no harm comes to any of the victims of this gross violation.
Send e-mails/letters/faxes to every human rights organization operating in Nepal, regionally and internationally, to appraise them of what is happening in Nepal.
Send this link (http://nepaliperspectives.blogspot.com/2006/09/picture-2-anatomy-of-maoist-extortion_20.html) to the head of the UN mission in Nepal who claims that "human rights violations have gone down." Ask him to compare notes with another report that hit the media two days earlier: Nepal UN chief says government control in countryside eroding. Help these people get their facts straight.
Links/e-mail address to prominent human rights organizations: http://web.amnesty.org/contacts/contact_us/eng-npl, hrwnyc@hrw.org, http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?action=form&fid=17&l=1, insec@insec.org.np
If no action is taken to apprehend, question and if found guilty, jail the guilty parties in the image above, demand resignations starting from the top of the chain of command - First Krishna Sitaula, then the Chief of Police and moving down the ladder.
No one has the right to violate anyone else's rights. This is the most FUNDAMENTAL human right.
-----------------------------------Dr Thomas Marks is a Honolulu-based political risk consultant; author of a number of benchmark works on Maoist insurgency
Mr. Pundit,
However, what i meant was that we should stop criticizing the army as an institution. Stop saying that they are one of the regressive forces or they could do a coup or that all they have been doing in the past is raping and murdering innocent nepali citizens.
If you read the above paragraph you would notice that i have used "WE" not "you". So, please do not take it personal and they were directed at us as a nation not you personally. I hope you read others comments before being over defensive yourself. Like i said earlier we are not in a battle and i would not mind losing (if it was a battle) if it pleases you.
The Problem is the SPA! The problem is the SPA. Infact the Maoists and King should get together to fight out the SPA. And then two way fight between King and Maoists. The one who wins takes Nepal, the one who loses leaves Nepal. Maoists can impose their republic if they win, the King can spread his democracy if he wins. GET RID OF SPA, you idiots, instead of talking and talking and talking.
I want someone to shoot dead KANAK MANI DIXIT. This son of a bitch talks too much, is funded by India and is a big gawd damned son a whore. KILL THIS BASTARD. Bitch ass is doing peace ass conferences with Maoists from El Salvador and I don't know where. Bitch ass talks of himself as civil society. Illiterate son of a bitch bastard. KILL KANAK MANI DIXIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can read all his asshoric anti-national /nepal, india praising comments on times of india and elsewhere. KILL HIM PLEASEEEEEEEEE.
The news article by Preeti Koirla was excellent with clear and concise analysis of the situation.
Equally, i found the article about Maoist extortion and threats in spite of their commitments to peace a clear and obvious examination of their political character.
Whether the political leadership of the Maoists are sincere or insincere is irrelevant in the face of mounting evidence that the Maoists continue with indiscriminate violence, threats and extortion.
We should be ashamed that a by product of the people movements has been to empower the Maoists and to divest the state of power.
People here are getting emotional and quite rightly so.
The SPA seem to be walking on egg shells to accommodate the Maoists and it is patently clear that this is political suicide.
The net result has been the break down of security and law and order. We do not yet know what the long term effects of the esculation of violence on Nepali society.
I wish the SPA would stop chasing after shadows and face up to the situation they now find themselves in.
The King blew his chance big time by not drawing the SPA to him but by going it alone -which would have been no bad thing had he done so with the right people, the right advice and the political nous of a leader. The man had conviction at least but no real political skill.
The SPA should caste aside their collective egos, swallow their pride and not make the same mistake the king made.
Let me repeat what i wrote earlier -the SPA need to present a unified front to the Maoists. They can not afford to concentrate their energies on pushing the King to the periphery of power. They need the King to participate and they need civil society to push with them for peace.
What is needed is some political backbone and unity to fend of the threat of Maoist violence before it is too late.
hate to say it, but we've been tooting this horn for a few years now. Perhaps the severity of recent events has finally made all of you pay attention.
To all the screaming ideologues out there, once again:
What miniscule clue has there been that leads you to believe that Koirala and Deuba would somehow miraculously become actual public servants if given another chance?
What sliver of reason led any of you to believe that we could bring the Maoists to the negotiating table when the only pattern they've ever established is open defiance of any agreement or negotiation to which they've been involved?
And finally, tell me please, what got into your heads when some of you wildly proclaimed a victory of "the people's movement?" This has NEVER been about the people. This has been about a few greedy men doing everything they could--including making a deal with the devil--to get back into power.
Official blogdai spanking to those of you who are just now coming to the realization that you've all been played like a busted saranghi.
Having said that, I've been staying out of the way of this thread, for the most part. It has been, by far, one of the best argued threads we've had here at blogdai. Don't let my rant of the last few paragraphs diminish this debate.
-=blogdai
Ian, I agree with you. Preeti's article makes a lot of sense in regards to the political situation here in Nepal today. And yes, there can be no alternative to the unfied front to confront the maoists.
I think the americans have already learnt that the indians can not be trusted (not that the us can be) and hence have changed their stance (maybe a bit too late). But i do not think GPK is in any mood to give into the pressures from the communist front. But yes, it would make them so much more stronger should they present the unfied front.
And anonymous, I agree with you too. Mr. K. M. Dixit is a raw agent and that he hurts nepal in the interest of Nepal. During the royal government he could not stop praising the maoists and the public following they have. BUt last night, i saw him on CNN and he was claiming that the maoists have no support and the support that they have today is basically because of weapons they carry. Also he claimed that the maoists should come to that ballot to show the public support they claim to have. Yes, it would be better for nepal if he was not around.
Blog dai,
No one ever believed that the SPA could do or achieve anything. Most people who supported the spamwere either their cadres or forced to oppose the king. And then there were people who simply hated the king. we have a group of people who thinks democracy is the only way and any other way is immoral. However, democracy is neither moral or immoral, it is simply a system. If it does not work, it should be readjusted, reformed or in some extreme cases rejected. But some people here say, democracy at any cost, special if the cost is not being paid by them. There are people who believe in the king, and there are people who dont. But there is not a single person in this country who can sincerely say that the SPA has, will or can achieve anything in the near or distant future.
Off the topic- I hear they are building a Church in Pashupatinath Temple area- why is this and by whose design these things are happening? I am sure its by design to inflame sectarian strife but on whose behest. See, how things are done- we pass time acting Socrates where as damage is being done right under our nose.
Its a blatant act of intimidation and to sit idle and theorize is plain stupid. Hey, I am liberal guy but there is limit to everything.
Temperature is rising.
Dear all,
if you read the following news, it does make so many things clearer. Maoists are bending backwards to please india and bring them into nepal as mediators. Their vested interest can no longer be hidden.
Kathmandu, 27 September: Maoist leader Baburam Bhattrai has stressed upon India's participation in the talks program for Maoists disarmament and Maoists inclusion in the parliamentary system, writes Punarjagaran weekly. Speaking at a program, Bhattrai has stated that since Sugauli treaty, India has participated in every important political change that Nepal has faced. As the decisions made in absence of India's agreement have not lasted, Bhattrai has stressed upon India's participation. Bhattrai also appreciated India's support while signing the twelve-point agreement which was signed in Delhi in presence of India's Dr. S. D. Muni, an ardent supporter of Maoists. Bhattrai also appealed India for stopping the role of America in Nepalese politics.
People's News/KDB
Much hinges on the peace talks on Oct 8th. However, I am having diffculty believe that a viable settlement can reached.
What concerns me most is that the Maoists have created an army of young people who have become used to threats and intimidation to get their way. How these young folks will all of a sudden give up those ways and join mainstream society remains to be seen.
Let me blunt and to a point- each and every Nepali should pledge their allegiance to King. Now, before you go off the rockers, hear me out. We are NEPALI just for the reason they unified 24s and 22s state into one Nepal and you can call yourself with pride, I hope, Nepali rather than Bihari, Pahadi etc.,. Isn't that enough or you'd rather pledge you allegiance to Manmonhan or mass murderer Prachande' and cover blown RAW agent Baburam.
The rationale for this comment is this. As we continue on this path of my-theory - is -best and I have got the answer, we are losing the precious time to save this nation from being one of the most despised, abhorred, and maglined.
Are you gonna do something about it or just fold arms and still play remote analyst that sees all but gotta no punch to make any dent. Lets leave aside our bereting and act and place a faith in King and correct the wrongs and proceed to make Nepal not switzerland- dear all cop -outs.
Monarchy certainly has and will always have a place in Nepal's history.
The question now is has it outlived its usefulness and does it have any role in the future?
If history alone is the rationale for keeping the monarchy, it is a fairly weak position.
Democracy certainly has and will always have a place in Nepal's history.
The question now is has it outlived its usefulness and does it have any role in the future?
Only a fool concentrates on removing the smell of smoke whilst flames burn his house down.
Is the king the smell of smoke or is he the flame?
I think the King is more important now than he has ever been.
He can either be an ally of the SPA or he can be their enemy.
I think we can see what they have decided.
Anonymous said:
I think the King is more important now than he has ever been.
May be so -- if you would elaborate and present solid arguments.
Prism,
I am another Anonymous and presenting the argument for King's role.
Nepal has 3 power centers:
1) King
2) Terrorists
3) People conspiring with terrorists
The constitution and people of Nepal recognize the first one and not the other two. Simple as that.
I think we should all understand that no one is right in Nepal. There is no point in claiming that the king, SPA or the maoists is in the wrong or right. We all know that they have all failed and that is resulting in the failure of our nation. So, we should stop playing the blame game.
As far as institution of monarchy is concerned, i believe that we need it. People (who are against the king) always bring up 237 years of exploitation (without any grounds, of course) and fail to identify who then has done good for the nation. Before 1960, we had no infrastructures at all (like proper, roads, hospitals, schools and so on). It was King Mahendra and Birendra who developed these infrastructures in our country. I am sure, most of us would agree that the SPA has done nothing to even compete with that. Those two kings, made us visible in world geography. They had and maintained the best (so far) foreign policy for our nation. I remember even in 1992, me and my freinds use to say, we are no less than India and we did not need to feel inferior at all. Just look at where we are today. I agree, the king can not rule the country now and the need for democracy is vital but to do away with the institution of Monarchy just because the murderous prachanda and corrupt spa leaders think that it would be in the interest of Nepal would simply be sucidal. After all, what have the SPA and the maoists done for the country anyway?
Anonymous said:
The constitution and people of Nepal recognize the first one and not the other two.
Which constitution are you talking about? The same one that King Gyanendra ripped apart to remove and imprison an elected Prime Minister? The same one that Tulsi Giri said was an obstacle for the royal regime?
If you are not aware, that constitution is in a permanent coma, and Nepal is to have a new constitution (hopefully soon enough once the Maoists disarm and commit to leave the path of violence).
People like Prism come back to the square one:
The PM was removed as per the constitution...All Governments assume extra ordinary powers in extreme conditions.
Now, compare this to your present terrorist government. It's coming back to power was unconstitutional not to mention anything henceforth that it did was the same too.
But wait. You still didn't give a reason on how can terrorists (and their supporters) be allowed to rule us?
There may be a future for a ceremonial monarchy in Nepal. So long has he has no control over the army and he has no means of interfering in the affairs of the state.
We do not need a Monarchy on the basis of what B has pointed out!
Don't compare apples to oranges. The Monarchy cannot justify its future existence because you claim they built some highways! I am afriad I have to call you a moron for the comment.
No my friend the Monarchy did not develop Nepal at all. Times were just less chaotic and the Moaist insurgency did not exist - so you think things were much better.
Actually, for all their incompetancies and curruption Nepal was improving (UN Development Indicatiors) in the post 1990 era.
Monarchy build "some highways". Hmmm. But what did SPAM do or is doing...killing Nepalese in tandem with it's terrorist partners. We would take "some highways".
Anonymous said:
The PM was removed as per the constitution...All Governments assume extra ordinary powers in extreme conditions.
Yep, the constitution allows the King to jail an elected PM, right? Why do you think the King had to shutdown the entire media and the communication infrastructure for a whole week for committing a constitutional act?
You say he was going by the book. Did he happen to mistake the book titled "How to Conduct a Coup de'tat" for the "Constitution of Nepal", both of which he was happening to read at the same time?
King Mahendra took the same "constitutional" step of jailing an elected PM in 2017 B.S., didn't he? Like father, like son.
I am against the Maoists coming to power with their arms intact just as you are. But I don't think the King is the appropriate response. Can you recall that the seven parties were themselves against the Maoists before the Feb. 1 coup? It's cause and then effect, not the other way around.
No, not jail, but remove in time of "crisis." The politicos were jailed later for not playing along and openly challenging civic order and rule of law. Forget the King, these guys were just about calling for open anarchy.
Yes, the 7 parties were against the Maoists pre-Feb takover. But, that very fact reinforces the larger point that SPA is unfit to govern due to the fact that they'd so easily change their stripes in order to maintain a grip on power. Along those lines, perhaps one school of thought is that we should be grateful for their inept ineffectiveness: it's better than if they displayed real power that they, apparently, would use in any direction that is politically expedient.
-=blogdai
Mr. Pundit,
Here you go again. Me a moron, why not. After all, like i said before everyone who does not agree with you is a moron.
Ok, if you read the history or even ask your grand parents who fought against the ranas (as you said), the state of Nepal pre 1960. I gave higways and roads as examples (i guess i need to spell everything out to you) not as all the accomplishments.
forget the ceremonial king, save the country, man. You are like a stuck record that refuses to play beyond a point. I do not believe in ceremonial monarchy but constitutional one. Why have a monarchy if it does not have any role to play? Why should we pay for a ceremonial king that does not have any role to play?
I have always love you style of discussions. "i call you a moron for tha comment" style. You do not actually put forward any arguements but just insults and hope the other person stoops down to your level so that you beat him on the basis of experience of being down their so long. You can check it out man, about the state of Nepal before King Mahendra and after King Birendra.
"No my friend the Monarchy did not develop Nepal at all. Times were just less chaotic and the Moaist insurgency did not exist - so you think things were much better."
Are you telling me that everything only came into existance after 1990. And are you also blaming the monarchy because the maoists did not exist during their rule? Does not the fact that the maoists did not exist during those era, say something aswell? Were all the Nepalis happy before the existance of the Maoists? No man, and once again you need to come back to reality. Look peace is the basic requirement for economic and infrastructural development but it is not and should not be considered, as a goal or achievement. Like honesty, is a basic requirement but without effeciency, knowledge and skills honesty alone will not contribute to the betterment of the society (infact it could work on the contrary).
UN, oh yes we know how respectable and trust worthy they are. Just look at what you are saying Mr. Pundit, "for all their incompetancies and curruption Nepal was improving (UN Development Indicatiors) in the post 1990 era", and does it make sense to you? OK, just do one thing, tell me what did the SPA do? And do not mention the number of schools, colleges and medical institutions as we would get into another debate about their standards and how they are hurting nepal than doing any good. But go ahead, make my day.
Look, i am not going to call you a moron man. You are great. You are intelligent, democratic and liberal. Good job, man. Keep on fueling these discussions. People like you make these blogs worth their existance. HAPPY DASHAIN.
And thank you Mr. Pundit,
Of all the comments, you found mine just too irresistable to ignore. We would have made good couple if only i was gay.
Mr. B, are you suggesting Mr. Pundit is gay?? ;)
Oh, please. Are we exhausting this thread? Time for a new posting, me thinks.
-=blogdai
B:
I just give up... you win man!
I don't see why we need a constitutinal monarch. A ceremonial one will suffice. However, I no longer wish to argue with you.
At least I think there should be a King which is a step up from many people. But B, I bow to you.
This Bhu finally bowed to the aspirations of the Nepali people. His fellow terrorists and their supporters will do that too. Goddess Durga is bringing some much desired change.
Aspirations of the people?
LOL!
Hey this is between B and myself... unless you want to add something substantive into this discussion take your Royal ass somewhere else.
Yep, talk about a thread-killer.
We really shouldn't have to have a constitutional monarch in Nepal, I agree with bhudai on that.
But what other counter-balancing body of government is there that can reasonably check a runaway Koirala administration or hold in check an ever advancing Maoist force bent on takeover?
Show me such a powerful balancing force and I'd be happy to have G. pass out Tikas and make Dashain speeches until hell freezes over.
-=blogdai
Well, we need good civil institutions. I mean not all countries have a King to always act as a balacing force. However, Nepal is different, I understand, since its a complex country with many ethnic variety. Pre Feb 1st I would not have had a problem with a constitutional monarchy. However, I have mentioned this before that you cannot have someone who arouses so much distrust and suspicion in that role.
PUNDEET G, What suspiciions and distrust are you taking about? what do the people suspect the king might do??
PUNDIT JEE,
* Monarchy's fate will be decided by the election to ca.
* Untill then 1990 constitution is still active and i am sure GPK will use it to his advantage.
*People are divided between constitutional monarchy and republic.
*There is nothing we can do about the monarchy untill the election to ca
*GPK has already done a coup and it will be complete with the unification of NC and NC-D. They will have the majority and no one will be able to oppose them.
*GPK will even have COAS Mr. katwal on his side and not on king's.
*Maoist problem is does not look like it will be solved and hence even the election to CA seems very improbable at the moment.
*"Civil Institutions" yeah, now you are talking. Institutions like CIAA perhaps which has given a clean cheat to MR. GPK?
The king migh or might not stay ( i believe it should), but it is not the issue here. The main issue is are we capable of governing ourselves? This is where Ian's comments come in handy, although we may not like it. Can we sustain as an independent nation? If yes, i have no problems with which ever government comes into power. But, do i have the right to criticize the SPA? i say hell, yes.
Blogdai,
How come we are coming back to the point of returning the job of the national umpire to the King as if nothing happened last year? Didn't he blow it up big time the last time, as the title of this post suggests?
The charge against the King is not that he was a constitutional monarch, but that he was not. He overstepped the bounds of his role to the detriment of his own job. The question is can he handle the job of being a constitutional monarch at all?
But, therein lies the point: DID G. overstep his boundaries or did he just do a supremely bad job of selling his constitutional actions to the world?
Remember back a few years when Koirala virtually BEGGED G. to step in, under article 127, and remove Deuba? G. did this. Now G. acts again, yes constutionally, under article 127 which gives him power to step in under a crisis and assume governmental control, and the world paints him as another Pol Pot.
As we've said, a little forsight and planning and G. might have had clearer sailing.
And yes, G. does arouse public mistrust. But it was not enough to make people take to the streets. They would have done that during the furor over the Royal assasinations. No, that mistrust had to be stoked, along with generations of oveall mistrust of the Ranas, Shahs and whomever else was seen as too rich and too oppressive.
Koirala knew that no mob could be raised to take to the streets for a new constitution and "absolute democracy" as was the original party line for april's protests. There was just no passion or mass understanding of the concept. So, Koirala and the Maoists took that little seed of royal mistrust and spun it into a mob frenzy.
Masterfully deceptive, don't you think?
-=blogdai
Yes and No. I do think G actions were wrong. Being the head of the state and father of the Nation he should act in good faith ... he should act with the intention of what is good for the people in the long term.
I think alot of it was mob frenzy but there were also many respectable people who opposed the King's take over - civil society leaders, notable journalists and others.
It's true Girija did beg G to step in at some point. But G or whoever the King is should have a good common sense to know that it is not a good idea for a neutral morarchy to get his hands dirty in this dirty political game
In the meantime, I will just add the money part...all the top notch people in Nepal (people who matter and who people who have money) support HM G. Not to mention that each and every Marwadi does support G, and as I have some close friends in that community I know it very well. Then comes the point of most Nepalis supporting the King.
Herein, lies the vital game plan...Madwadis don't take active part in Nepali politics but they have enough clout to get what they want.
Now let's talk about civil slaves and dogs of Nepal...Kanak Mani Dixit, Gagan Thapa, Akhilesh Tripathi, etc.? Well, uh well uh. They can be bought and kicked ass anytime...all you need is a good strategic game.
Bhudai Pundit wrote:
It's true Girija did beg G to step in at some point.
Please don't present opinions and hearsays as facts. Facts require evidence. What is the source of this statement?
Anonymous, read this and shut up. http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:rKDIg5PNPYQJ:www.nepalnews.com.np/archive/morepages/kailali3.htm+koirala+asks+king+to+remove+deuba&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1
Isn't is a bit too late to say Girija never intervened, pleaded with G. to have Deuba removed. Get your head out of the SPA bucket it's in.
Remember Koirala's so called "broad democratic alliance" of M. Nepal, Thapa and himself that allied against Deuba and demanded the King invoke article 127 and have Deuba removed?
No, of course you don't.
-=blogdai
These political leaders sure did make a mockery of the system.
No doubt about that.
So sad, if they were only as skilled at legislation as they are at manipulation, Nepal would be the democratic model for the world.
-=blogdai
I am sure B would love to hear this but I am being accused of being a Royalist on blog.com.np on the "Democracy Effect: ..." post.
These days even if you argue for a constitutional monarchy people jump up and down like a manic and accuse you of being a Royalist.
Good points from both blogdai and pundit jee. But let us look ahead now instead of back and ponder over "what ifs". The road ahead is just as difficult and demands all political players to act in the interest of the people and the nation. Which does not necessarily mean do whatever the mob demands but act soley in the interest of the future of this nation and her citizens.
And pundit jee,
I really would not care less about your political inclinations. I do not know what royalist means. Yes, i am prajatantrik but i really do not know what loktantrik means. Lokatantra is prajatantra in a new packaging. It is like "horlicks!, now with even more protein". What is a royalist? some one who wants active monarchy? if so, then i am sure all nepalis, except for king's immediate relatives, are not royalists. So, pundit jee, i do not think neither you or me are royalists but people with different perspectives on democracy and how it should be.
But then, yes i am happy that you have been called a royalist even though i think you are a compulsive neutralist.
I am NOT in ANYWAY related to the Palace. But I want ACTIVE MONARCHY in Nepal. I might be knowing another 100 thousand personally who want that.
Ummmm hmmmm
Nepal in no way needs any sort of democracy, stupidocracy, idiocracy, maocracy, republicocracy, etc. because all these are synonyms and complement each other and this is the case everywhere in South Asia.
Nepal needs an Active Monarchy which is guided by a highly competent ELECTED (by the people of Nepal) legislative assembly.
Now you all keep doing blahs and blahs and barks and barks and bitch and bitch.
Blogdai quoted the following link to again present opinion as facts:
http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:rKDIg5PNPYQJ:www.nepalnews.com.np/archive/morepages/kailali3.htm+koirala+asks+king+to+remove+deuba&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1
BTW, who is Kailali and why does he/she have to use a pseudonym to present "facts"? Hmmm, could it be Blogdai himself??
Oh, here we go again, blogdai has to wade through another person's incomprehension in the middle of a great thread of discussion.
Must we always have to break things down to square one again?
The article in question presented the EXACT sequence of events as they occured. Yes, it is opinionated, but the sequence and the motivations are solid and accurate. Deuba dissolves parliament under article 53 and Koirala gets pissy and demands the invocation of article 127. God, this information is everywhere, not just in the above article.
Here comes that pesky gnat again. Comment moderation anyone?
-=blogdai
I wanted to say hi, I didn't know you were back before I posted anything else, but something didn't allow it.
So here's it then:
Hi, didn't know you were back.
God, this information is everywhere, not just in the above article.
But where, where?? Show me an authoritative article, please! Not just some more halla in this hallai-halla ko desh!
Manan, old friend!
Good to hear from you again. Your comments are always salient and welcome. (Even though I did catch you trashing me over at wagle's site, ha!)
Please, give us some more thoughts.
-=blogdai
I’m sorry, after further research it looks like Koirala begged g. to invoke article 127 in order to delay election under the phony premise of “security.” Plus, he had a selfish take on ol’ 127 and pleaded with the King to use it to restore the parliament that Deuba dissolved. My bad.
It was not so much that Koirala pleaded on behalf of the Nepali people for a change in government, HA! No, Koirala pleaded with the King to invoke his powers under article 127 in order for Koirala to get back to the fat seat of corruption as prime minister and to avoid elections that might serve as a referendum against his governance.
Is it your aim to defend Koirala?
It must be since the King's takeover was fully constitutional under article 127. Since there is no court in Nepal strong enough to set a constitutional legal precedent; until it can be effectively argued in court, the King's action WAS constitutional under any reasonable interperetation of article 127.
This has always been a spat between spoiled rich brats: Koirala and Deuba. Koiral wants only things that are of direct benefit to him and his family. If he can manipulate article 127 for this, so much the better.
-=blogdai
This is slightly off topic but I personally don't wish to see the NC and NC-D unite. Should they come togeather it will create a monopoly in Nepali politics - that's about the last thing we need. I was glad Deuba said he was not ready for unity.
Blogdai - me thinks its time for a new thread.
yes, Gyane blew your dreams up! And he'll soon be blown up. me dying to see Gyane in nakkhu. when?
before HM G, we gonna see the the terrorists and their partners been blown up.
Well, Mr. Pundit,
Maybe u will not want the congressis to unite but unfortunately no one will be able to stop. Forget, what deuba has said so far. They will unite at the most appropriate (for them) time. But yes, their unification does not spell good news for us. I agree with you.
the peace talk is becomming a nightmare for the gyane and his bhatuwas. and yet they are day-dreaming of its failure. but its going to sucess! and gyane is going to be jailed. he should be, no? for massacre-ing his brothers whole family and killing innocent lives and many other.......
i hope the day arrives soon....very soon...
Party unity? Sure, why not. You can lead the parties to unite but you can't make them talk...
There will still be the bickering and in fighting that will eventually lead to: gues what? Another split!
These idiots are condemned to repeat all of their past failings because they can't get past their personal greed and political posturing.
And, oh, how faint that cry of "kill gyane" is becoming. Only the thickest of skulls can still espouse that school of thought. The last of the screaming little-boy stone throwers: pleading for relevance and attention.
-=blogdai
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