Monday, May 01, 2006

A Bad Trend for Democracy



Blogdai doesn't like the trend.

We have all been so fat and happy with our democratic lives over the years that we've totally neglected the next generation of citizens who should be required to pick up the mantle of democratic responsibility. We've failed to instill in our younger citizens the understanding that democracy must always pay an homage to past sacrifices and that freedom isn't a "free-for-all" where anything goes as long as you tag it with a democratic label. Gone is the sense of responsibility towards your fellow citizens; especially those with whom you disagree.

The new trend in democracy is none other than good old fashioned mob rule. Form a group and impose your will. Build spontaneous momentum by any means and call it "the will of the people."

It is troubling when a young person's first experience with democracy is a street protest. Street protests are autocratic in nature: prone to neither the compromises nor the debates incumbent in true democratic discourse.

Throughout the world we are witnessing the gradual hijacking of some very civil and advanced concepts to help justify actions of simple street mobs. Concepts like "democracy," the "will of the people," the "struggle for freedom" and "equal representation" are brandished as rallying cries by those seeking world acceptance for their narrow agendas.

Mobs are not democratic. In Thailand: Angry mobs took to the streets to demand the resignation of prime minister Thaksin and to boycott elections. Thaksin, well-supported in rural areas of Thailand, won the election anyway but chose to step aside to avoid mob chaos. True, Thaksin owes the people of Thailand a big apology for years of corruption, but should the fear of impending anarchy have been the deciding factor in his resignation? What about those rural citizens who constituted Thaksin's winning majority? Was it fair to let an angry crowd in Bangkok take away their democratic choice?


Nepal's mobs were different. Whipped up and used by differing parties as grist for their personal agendas, a nation's youth took to the streets to define their view of the democratic process in a very narrow fashion. Real democratic compromise was never considered by the protesting parties in Nepal. There was never a sense of working out differences or even talking to the opposition. It was all about ramming home a singular simplistic idea: The King must go. Sadly, Nepal abandoned any attempt at democracy by not talking to the King. Now we will never know if a peaceful, democratic solution would have been possible through dialogue. No, like Thailand, it was the gathering momentum of street protests that ruled the day.

Taking to the streets is almost always a sign of minority frustration. If one's minority viewpoint is not acknowledged in a democracy, one has the right to a peaceful demonstration that challenges those in the majority to validate that viewpoint. Why is this ok? Because perhaps, through information, the majority opinion might be eventually swayed in the direction of the minority. A classic example of this are the current immigration debates and protests being conducted in the U.S. People are being alerted about bad, one-sided or non-existent immigration practices now, almost daily; but always, there is respect for the democratic process.

Majorities don't protest.

To claim that Nepal's street protests somehow represented the "will of the people of Nepal" is pure hyperbole. These protests represented the interests of the 7-party alliance, not the majority. In fact, without elections, how does one know exactly where the majority opinion lies? Majorities are keepers of the democratic process-- they represent and maintain the system. When duly elected representatives fail in this charge, they are replaced through elections. If these representatives fail so completely that they refuse to even conduct elections, a higher authority must be called upon to keep the peace and restore order. The rest of the world gets international peace-keepers to do this, Nepal has a King.

Protests and the immediate gratification of mob rule now leave Nepal more unstable than ever. Already we are seeing this redefined democracy losing it's hold when people like Bam Dev Guatam threaten to take to the streets if a constituent assembly is not elected IMMEDIATELY. How sad. This shows a complete lack of faith in what was acheived by the protests and a complete lack of trust for the motivations of those rushed in to run the new parliament. The parties are once again returning to their bickering ways.

There is no rule of law.

Where will street dissent end? Will all disputes now be settled through street action? As we have seen, it takes very little to whip up emotional sentiments and bring people to the streets. Is Nepal now a society of protesters? If so, then the Alliance has completely eliminated the rule of law as a means of keeping order in society and insuring that the will of the majority be respected and the rights of the minority not forgotten.

Democracies use the process of debate, election and discussion to determine which individuals are fit to lead and can be trusted with implementing the needs of those they represent. Constant brinkmanship and the threat of civil disruption robs free citizens of their right to progress and familiarize themselves with their representatives. As we have seen, protests often take on lives and themes that are quite different from their original intent. Constant street violence keeps a society from achieving national unity. Because of this, it is essential that democratic societies commit themselves to the peaceful resolution of disputes. We now have no precedent for this in Nepal.

This is anarchy.

And what of democracy? Democracy is NOT a natural freestanding concept that spontaneously flourishes when people are left alone to their own devises. Democracy does NOT give people the right to say and do as they please at the expense of others and most definitely, democracy will NOT prosper without constant supervision, revision, adaptation, citizen participation, active legislation insured to promote its survival, rule of law, respect for the rights of viewpoints outside of the majority, equal representation under the law, the equal application of the law to all citizens regardless of caste or social standing; and the occasional personal discomfort and sacrifice required of each individual citizen for the public good.

The important thing is to believe in the system. Constant protests show you don't believe in anything but your next protest. In a democracy, the only real thing that all citizens are required to posess in common is faith in the democratic process. We all get screwed under a democracy from time to time, but we try to take some solace in the fact that it could happen to any one of us. It's our payment for living in a democratic society--our dues, if you will.

Democracy may just be more about what you don't get than what you DO get. One has to learn to lose an argument or two under a democracy. At the very least, one has to learn to compromise.

There are no absolutes in a democracy.


-=blogdai






57 Comments:

At 9:01 PM, May 01, 2006, Anonymous g said...

yes, blogdai. Nepal is in a pitiful situation. there is not much to expect when nepal is lead by last century leaders; arrogant and deaf to other peoples suggestion. girija is a prime example. his own people say so about it. read

http://www.nepalnews.com/archive/2006/others/feature/may/news_feature01.php

LIDE DHIPPI is waht we call it. when for any thing and everything they go to protest, they are doing nothing more than pulling each others leg. they are hindering already lagging development.

well. i guess we have not seen the end of protests yet. i was too naive to think the spamm will stick together for a couple of months and people will get their much desired peace and freedom to go to WORK and earn their living.

all we can hope now i guess is Nepal will somehow stagger towards literacy and economic development, coz as far as i can see that is the only way to bring POLITICAL TOLERANCE in Nepal. we need to have new generation of leaders who understand the concept of democracy and actually put PEOPLE'S SOVEREIGNTY before theirs.


Atleast i see some hope Girija is not going to oust the King if it is in his power.

-good luck leaders

 
At 1:29 AM, May 02, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is no denying the fact that what you speak is nothing but the real truth. I do admire the way you have presented this article, to the point, very readable, and with concret logic. I wish people like you do a massive blitz to make foreign power understand the issue at hand. In pretex of democracy, Nepal is slowly but surely heading towards a regressive state where voice of reason and action will be denied. As communist do, they will not stop until they restructure social and political condition of this country. Anything in between will not be acceptable to them but the parties do not see this coming. Now, they are in competition with the Maoist to take the credit for the mass turnout which is plain to anyone that without the threat and initmidation of Maoist, coupled with money from foreign countries who are hell bent on creating Nepal as serfdom, would not have been possible.

It is quite evident- the mobocracy which Maoist utilized to gain a political credibility and to be a power broker is at a heavy cost to Nepal with false expectation of sustainable peace. The trend which they are using will create a society that only believes in force and power. A very communistic tendencies that does not bode well for Nepal in the long run.

Blogdai, I do admire your writing and do keep us on track with your insight. Lets save Nepal from doom which I precieve is unfolding as we speak

 
At 4:12 AM, May 02, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Get off being the King's man (hence sour grapes), and into how to progress with what's happening now.

 
At 4:42 AM, May 02, 2006, Anonymous Brit said...

There is an urgent need in Nepal for education in the true meaning and responsibilities of democracy. Many of my ex-pat Nepali friends seem to think (more likely it is a desparate hope) things will now become 'democratic' as if by magic.
Who has access to Nepali TV broadcasts? - Is there any chance of an open (as opposed to Mao style 're-education') debate/ information series to inform the nation?

 
At 4:46 AM, May 02, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

There are no absolutes in a democracy.

Gosh, wish that you had mentioned such a thing even once during the 14 months of the king's absolute rule. Perhaps, you wouldn't have had to actually sit down to think about democracy today!

It's interesting to observe how all the die-hard royalists are suddenly rebranding themselves to "true" democrats!

 
At 6:01 AM, May 02, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gyane lost - get over it, as we were told when Gyane was in charge.

Whining isn't going to change it.

 
At 6:21 AM, May 02, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just goes to show you that you can not teach Old Dogs new tricks. Students in the urban areas are now giving the parties a taste of their own medicine...take to the streets whenever you are unhappy! Democracy in Nepal....it's just a dream. Sadly none of the geriatric leaders even understand what it means!

It's just a matter of time before the balloon goes up again.

 
At 7:58 AM, May 02, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fantastic write up but even better observation!javascript:void(0);
publish this comment

 
At 11:38 AM, May 02, 2006, Anonymous g said...

found this in united we blog:
Nepalis complain about the caste system and corrupt officers. They Openly vent their anger against the government. But have they ever thought About Nepal’s real problems? I believe that they have not. I want to say that Nepal’s real problems are lack of patriotism among the people and lack of love for one another. This is the conclusion I have reached during my stay. This summer, I did voluntary work from July 5 to July 30 at FHI Ever Vision
School, Matatirtha, Kathmandu.

Let me first tell you about my country,Korea. This might help you understand my point. Just after the Korean War, which claimed lives of
more than 5 million Koreans, Korea was one of the poorest countries in the world. Without natural resources, Korea had no choice but to desperately struggle for its survival by all means. Under this gloomy situation, Koreans
envied other Asian countries like Japan,Taiwan, and Nepal.
Korean government officials were horribly corrupt. With the dual classes of Yangban (nobles) and angnom(peasants), Korean society was sickening day by day. However, Koreans, having determination to become rich, overcame the unfair social structure and put the country onto the track of development.
When the former president Park Jung Hee took over the government, there were few factories in Korea. Korea could not attract loans or expect foreign investments. Under these circumstances, President Park ‘exported’ miners and nurses to then West Germany. The salaries that they earned were used to building factories and promoting industrialization of Korea.
In 1964, when President Park visited then West Germany, the miners and nurses asked the president when the Koreans would become rich. The president replied, crying with the miners and nurses, that someday the Koreans would become rich. Many of Korean scientists and engineers, who could just enjoy comfortable lives in the United States, returned to Korea with only one thing in their mind: the determination to make Korea the most powerful and prosperous country in the world. They did their best even though their salaries were much less than what they would have received in other
countries.
The Koreans believed that they have the ability to change their desperate
situation and that they must make the country better, not only for themselves but also for the future generations yet to come.
My parents’ generation sacrificed themselves for their families and the country. They worked 14 hours a day, and risked their lives working under inhumane conditions. The mothers, who went to work in factories, fed their babies while operating machines in dangerous environments. They always tried to teach their children the true value of ‘hard work’. Finally, all of these hard works and sacrifices made the prosperous Korea that you see now.

Nepalis, have you ever cried for your country? I heard that many of Nepali youth do not love their Nepal. I also heard that they want to leave Nepal because they don’t like caste system, or because they want to escape the severe poverty.However, they should be the first ones to voluntarily work for Nepal’s development, not the first ones to complain and speak against
their country.
I have a dream that someday I would be able to free the souls from suffering from the underdeveloped countries, anachronistic customs and the desperate hunger. My belief has become stronger than ever after seeing the
reality in Nepal.
A child with a fatal disease who doesn’t have enough money to buy a pill; a child living in what seems like a pre-historic dwelling and not having the opportunity to receive education; and a student who cannot succeed, no matter how hard he studies, just because of the class he comes from.
A society, in which wives not only take care of children but also work in
the fields, while their husbands waste their time doing nothing; a society
in which a five-year-old must labor in a brick factory to feed herself.
Looking at the reality of Nepal, I was despaired, yet this sense of despair
strengthened my belief.I already know that many of the Nepalis are devout
Hindus. However,nothing happens if you just pray to hundreds of thousands of
gods while doing nothing. It is the action that you and Nepal need for the
better future.
For Nepal and yourselves, you have to show your love to your neighbors and
country just as you do to Gods. You know that your Gods will be pleased
when you work for the development of your country and improvement of your lives. Therefore, please, love your neighbors and country. Teach your children to love their country. And love the working itself. Who do you think will cry for your Nepal? Who do you think will be able to respect the spirit of Himalayas and to keep the lonely flag representing it? You are the ones responsible for leading this beautiful country to a much brighter future. This responsibility lies on you.
(The writer is a 15 year-old student of Hankuk Academy of Foreign Studies,South Korea).

 
At 4:02 PM, May 02, 2006, Blogger blogdai said...

4:46 where in god's name have YOU been? We've done virtually nothing BUT educate those who will listen on the vagaries and actual practices of democracy. What, your big street party is now through and you've found yourself with a responsibility hangover? I suggest you go back and read this blog, every word over the last year, and then try and quote me as being slow on the uptake; I dare you.

blogdai has also allowed a few of those taunting little boy comments to filter into this thread...for a reason. They show the tremendous disconnect between the frenzied mob momentum that swept these people into power and the actual sense of what it takes to run a country. I particularly like the comment about how I should get "into how to progress with what's happening now." Well let's see what's happening now, shall we?

Parties are bickering because, as predicted, Girija took all the prime posts for his cadres.

Maoists are calling for the dissolution of the parliament already.

Maoist led mobs are standing outside Singha Durbar and beating up politicians and calling for a republic.

Listen you pre-pubescent stone throwers: YOU AIN'T WON NOTHIN'.
Your troubles are just beginning, in fact. The Maoists are running the show and there's going to be more blood in the streets before this thing is over.

So, while you are all telling blogdai to "get over it" and to get into what is supposed to be coming next, try to consider the very large hole you've just dug for yourself and your countrymen.

If there's at least one of you with the ability to comprehend a complete sentence, you can plainly see that blogdai has given quite a bit of thought on "how to progress with what's happening now," and it leaves me with just one question:
Are any of you ready to pick up your little stones and take on the Maoists?

-=blogdai

 
At 9:20 PM, May 02, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nice article….Nepal reminds me of Rome after Caesar’s murder. The mob cheers the last orator but is skeptical of all the speakers that came before the last one. It seems like very disagreement is threatened by “take it to the street” instead of it being resolved through constructive dialogue/debate. I read an article by a ny post corresponded talking to a framer in eastern Nepal. The farmer had very little knowledge of what was happening in Kathmandu and still held the king in a god like image. I get the picture that there is a huge disconnect between people living in the cities and the small farmers. Very sad state of affairs but there is light at the end of the tunnel (hopefully the light isn’t an incoming train.)


. To me democracy, autocracy communism none of these work and never have. What saves these institutions is capitalism. The residual effect of a capitalist society is Job creation. Job creation has a huge trickle down effect that improves the educational system, generates funds, etc……If Nepal’s new leaders want to help Nepal they need to help business.

One more thing...the maoist just cannot be all forgiven...they took 13000 lives and wreaken over 100,000 homes....Someone has to pay for that. Nice article….Nepal reminds me of Rome after Caesar’s murder. The mob cheers the last orator but is skeptical of all the speakers that came before the last one. It seems like very disagreement is threatened by “take it to the street” instead of it being resolved through constructive dialogue/debate. I read an article by a ny post corresponded talking to a framer in eastern Nepal. The farmer had very little knowledge of what was happening in Kathmandu and still held the king in a god like image. I get the picture that there is a huge disconnect between people living in the cities and the small farmers. Very sad state of affairs but there is light at the end of the tunnel (hopefully the light isn’t an incoming train.)


. To me democracy, autocracy communism none of these work and never have. What saves these institutions is capitalism. The residual effect of a capitalist society is Job creation. Job creation has a huge trickle down effect that improves the educational system, generates funds, etc……If Nepal’s new leaders want to help Nepal they need to help business.

One more thing...the maoist just cannot be all forgiven...they took 13000 lives and wreaken over 100,000 homes....Someone has to pay for that. Prachanda nor Baburam Bhattarai have a clue how to help nepal...read the BBC article @ news.bbc.co.uk

 
At 12:44 AM, May 03, 2006, Anonymous gyane chor desh chodh said...

whoever wrote this - BIAS BS - is in his own small fantasy world; most probably writing from a burgeios first world or first world lifestyle, and don't have a clue what's happening in this war-stricken, poverty-infested third world reality, where be it majority or minority is revolting out of sheer frustrations. he/she must be a burgeios educated wannabe scholar cum opinion-former, or a right-wing bigot from a have it all ruling class who believe in destiny by birth.

what is one to do when they don't have the military backing like some depos? and how do you see domocracy in this depos rule? where do you see democracy when his lawyers had to defend his rule in the supreme court by preaching his supremacy on some hindu mythology - a hindu king being above the constitution - in this day and age; just to cite one.

lets not get sucked up by some burgeios buzz words - democracy, rule of law, anarchy. how come you saw the same in the earlier govts.? just catch the moment and be glad you are living while history is in its making. who says this was a SPA movement? don't you see the SAP leaders getting manhandled? the young generation of nepal has shown their frstrations, and at the same time have shown how commited they are. this was a purely citizens movements. the king was smart enough to throw the ball back into the SPA's court, however late it maybe, hoping that this might at the least save his back. otherwise there is no telling to where all this could have led. we can't forget what the ambassador of a nation who supported the king for its self interest in the past had to say - however out of touch from reality these guys, like the writer is. people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones at others.

DON'T GET ME STARTED!

 
At 2:15 AM, May 03, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just read that a cabinet has been formed and the government is expected to declare a ceasefire.



But to your post....

Majorities don't protest.
Empty rhetoric. In many parts of the world people who protested against the Iraq war were part of the majority. The people that made up the 'revolutions' in the various former Soviet bloc countries were part of the majority. And lest we forget, a majority in Nepal were against the king's direct rule according to the Himal Media survey.

In Thailand: Angry mobs took to the streets to demand the resignation of prime minister Thaksin and to boycott elections.
Funny, in your 'Tale of Two Nations' post you wrote of public demonstration in Thailand: "Used, in this context, as a tool to alert citizens to unconstitutional acts and corruption."

Was it fair to let an angry crowd in Bangkok take away their democratic choice?
Actually Thaksin said before the election that he'd resign if he received less than 50 percent of the vote.

 
At 5:17 AM, May 03, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blogdai sadi "Sadly, Nepal abandoned any attempt at democracy by not talking to the King."

Are you serious? And do you really believe the King would have given up just by talks? He caved in because his own existence /well-being was in doubt. He closed all dooors of talks when he appointed people like Gauchan and co. in his cabinet, and his high handed approach to quell the demonstrations - that does not show his democratic credentials. I believe there are problems with all three main players in Nepalese politics: the monarchy, the maoists and the political parties, and in that order. Of the three, the one that can change and can be reformed most is the last one, so people are willing to give the parties a chance once more. To cure the whole mess we are in, we have to start by removing the one that has been the source of most of the problems and that for a pretty long period - the monarchy; then we will/can think about the maoists and others.

-Sagar

 
At 7:15 AM, May 03, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Govt announces truce, withdraws Red Corner Notice, terrorist tag on Maoists, annuls municipal elections


Kantipur Report

KATHMANDU, May 3 - Reciprocating the Maoist announcement of a three-month-long ceasefire, the government on Wednesday evening withdrew the Red Corner Notice and removed the “terrorist” tag labelled on the Maoists.

 
At 8:02 AM, May 03, 2006, Blogger blogdai said...

Quite a bit of mopping up to do, let's get started.

9:20, nice points. But pure democracy without regulation and the rule of law is still anarchy heading down the road to feudalism.

Sagar, yes, Nepal robbed itself by not even making the ATTEMPT at talks with the King. You talk of corrupt ministers, sure, but do you hear your own pre-conceived bias in this? The fact is, you never will know what the King might have done because you didn't have enough faith in the democratic process to even give it a try.

chor desh imbecile: classify and pre-conceive again, right? blogdai must be some first world foreigner trying to tell you what to do, right? And, oh, how telling, by all means let's not get sucked up in those pesky "buzz words - democracy, rule of law.." and the like. You guys rode that horse to power and now it's just an inconvenience, I presume.

2:15, good attempt, but let's not confuse majorities protesting on moral authority with those protesting to further a narrow agenda and chance their own government. We could start a world wide protest supporting AIDS research and we would certainly be in a majority. However, if the AIDS movement ran a national government in any country, they most certainly would not have to protest for more research in that country, get it? There is no majority movement in Nepal against either the King or regression, period. Whenever we see protests in Kathmandu, they are festooned with party banners and their is no sense of national unity. What would be a good example of a majority protest in Nepal? A mass, unifying peace movement might fill the bill. But since Nepal's governments either royal or party seldom follow the leadings of any majority outside their inner circle, this would fall on deaf ears.

I also don't see where you find conflict in blogdai's statements about thailand. Boycotting the elections and asking for Thaksin's resignation goes hand in hand with alerting the public about his unconstitutional acts of corruption. Plus, you missed the boat: Thaksin got well over 60% of the vote, I believe, and still stepped down. So, in retrospect, Thaksin had every right to stay in office. Less than 50% would have been considered a national referendum against Thaksin's government. The fact that he resigned while receiving over 50% shows that the external pressures of the mob played a factor. One of Thaksin's first utterances after resigning was to implore Thais to stop protesting "love one another" and to preserve the democratic process. He was clearly worried about the overall escalating influence of mobs in Thailand.

-=blogdai

 
At 8:07 AM, May 03, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This article is spot on, Blog Dai.

It is made more pertinent by the news we read of rebels in Darfur holding out for more concessions and by Indonesian militants becoming encouraged by rowdy behaviour in Kathmandu.

 
At 8:07 AM, May 03, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Some of the bullshitters who have started to post here are most welcome to give their shits on samudaya.org or freenepal.org or unitedweblog.com

The above websites will pay you handsomely. Perhaps not because they have achieved what they wanted.

This is a place for civilized people talking in a civilized manner with anyone and everyone. Any person supporting the cause of stone throwing mobs will be stoned here by me at least. Bullshitters!

 
At 8:19 AM, May 03, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

12:44 AM, May 03, 2006, gyane chor desh chodh said...

Dude,

1) With your surname you have made it clear how much of brains you have. 250 years of Monarchy had to see a person like you. Where are you from, Dafur?

2) Blogdai - where is he? How does it matter? I thought some of your Nepali hotel waiters in US were taking out protests in Washington for democracy in Nepal (although the gimmick was funded).
When an American sitting in the comforts of White House and who has never been to Nepal can comment on things happening here, why can't blogdai..
When Kofi Anan (who hasn't ever dreamed of Nepal) can comment on Nepal, why can't blogdai?

Your knowledge of and on Nepal is petty. Shut up and shut out and let the brains talk here. You can continue being a part of the mobs.

 
At 10:22 AM, May 03, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blogdai you are right about the Thai election results. However, a motivating factor in his resignation was the fact that all 500 seats in the parliament were not filled and under Thai constitutional law parliament could not convene to elect a PM.

You're spinning what you wrote. In this post you state that mobs aren't democratic, espousing how Thaksin was hounded out of office by angry mobs but you've previously inferred the opposite, that the Thai protests were somehow morally superior to the Nepali ones.

Likewise your comments on majorities. You make an absolute statement but when challenged on the flaws in your arguments are revealed for all to see.

 
At 11:13 AM, May 03, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is a place for civilized people talking in a civilized manner with anyone and everyone. Any person supporting the cause of stone throwing mobs will be stoned here by me at least.

Sounds quite civilized, eh?

 
At 12:27 PM, May 03, 2006, Blogger blogdai said...

Did you understand my rebuttal above? Perhaps for simplicity I should say "national majority" instead? Are we missing the part about majorities generally run governments because they are elected by a majority of citizens? Most simply put, do majorities routinely protest themselves? Can you explain the flaw in that?

Yes, mobs are not democratic and yes, I felt the Thai mobs had more of a moral high ground, so what's your point?

Even simpler, Thais were protesting a government they elected and which turned out to not represent the elected interests of the people. Basically, they didn't get what they paid for.

Nepal protests were about overthrowing a King who acted constitutionally. They used the mantle of democracy to accomplish some very undemocratic things. They listened to nothing but their own agenda and threatened dissenters. Their beef with the King was entirely manufactured and self-oriented.

So, Thais were calling out a lack of democratic governance to improve the system and the 7-parties were using the term democracy to overthrow the system to meet their needs.

Thais and Thaksin, respect democracy. Girija and the parties, use democracy for their own narrow ends.

Can we move on?

-=blogdai

 
At 11:08 PM, May 03, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blog Dia deserves kudos for his insightful, balanced, and in-depth analysis of what is happening, happened, and will happen case scenario in context of Nepal and its ever changing politics. Most of the contributors seem to have premeditated agenda or affiliation which seem to corral them to express views within that confine and not look beyond. Let spread the wings, people.

Now, as I daily do, read the pieces written in this site. I have failed to understand the ignorance of people in not touching a "missing link" in this whole episode of so-called-uprising. FOREIGN POWERS. I have stopped being a proud and dignified Nepali citizen. I say this with a heavy heart, it has been abundantly clear, the destiny of Nepal lies in the hands of people like Yechuri and emissaries of foreign powers. So lets not pretend or kid ourselves that we can chart our own destiny. Sorry, face the fact.

Blog Dai, I would love to hear you on this, I mean foreign dominance in Nepali politics and its expected consequences.

 
At 3:26 AM, May 04, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blogdai wrote:

Thais and Thaksin, respect democracy. Girija and the parties, use democracy for their own narrow ends.

Amen to that. I would also add "Blogdai defines democracy for his own narrow ends. Ditto for Maoists too."

 
At 5:25 AM, May 04, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Majority don't protest"

you mean the supporters of the status quo don't protest.

You claim that in democracy the leaders are elected. in my view the parliament now were elected though not recently but at least a few years ago. When was the King elected? At brith perhaps.

As for your argument that the parties never talked to the King. That is just bs. The SPA and M waited for the King to talkt ot them for more than a year and a half. Under all pressure the king refused even to talk to the SPA who still wanted to preserve him at the time. So how can you blame the SPA for not wanting to talk to the KIng. In the end I believe they succeded in talking to the King be it by shouting at him.


You ask how can we ask if the majority protested against the King? Or if the SPA is supported by the majority without elections? Well my rhetorical question would be How do we know the majority did not protest without a constitutional assembly? How do we know that majority do not support the SPA without an election? By the way how do we know the majority supports the King? Ahhh... I forgot the many public felicitation programs and a day in lalitpur. By the way heard people were paid to attend this too. I guess people in Nepal are making brisk business of supporting leaders for money.

As for protesting and instilling more democratic norms in the youg generation agree with you completely that it is a must. However how do you propose we do this? Don't you think we need a strong democratic system before we can start this process? How can you teach someone of democracy under an autocratic system?

 
At 9:13 AM, May 04, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Relax guys...now the real game begins!

"In his statement, Prachanda expressed hope that the forthcoming negotiations would not turn into a failure as was the case with the previous two round of negotiations and that interim statute and interim government would be formed by dissolving the reinstated parliament, constitution and the government. Prachanda said the interim government would take the lead of the entire elections process for what he called the ‘unconditional constituent assembly."

Hmmmm....is this what Girija has in mind??? Disolve parliament??....form new interim government??...lose control over electon process??

Fasten your seat belts boys.....THE FUN IS JUST BEGINING!

 
At 9:25 AM, May 04, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

National majorities like the Indian population pre-independence or national majorities like the blacks of South Africa during apartheid? Maybe it's like the non-protesting Tibetan national majorities when the Chinese plotted to kidnap the Dalai Lama. Yeah, sure, majorities don't protest.

Is this what you wrote about pre-Feb 1st 2005? I haven't the inclination to go back that far back.

 
At 10:22 AM, May 04, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think we have enough like minded people here to start a website. When SPAM can propagate it's agenda with well funded websites, why can't we do something for our nation. When we know that we are correct, we can do something to wipe off the 19 days of shame and agony that the nation had to face.

Say what?

 
At 11:20 AM, May 04, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ha ha!

Govt's decision to scrap municipal polls could be challenged: Experts (Nepalnews special)

The Seven Party Alliance (SPA) government’s decision to invalidate three-month-old municipal polls could be challenged in the court of law, experts say.

Talking to Nepalnews, a constitutional lawyer—who did not want to be named—said there is no provision in the Local Self Governance Act 2055 B. S. to terminate or recall the popularly elected representatives.

“While announcing its decision, the government hasn’t referred to any law. This shows that the very decision is controversial and devoid of any legal standing,” the legal expert added.

http://www.nepalnews.com/archive/summary/news31.htm

 
At 11:26 AM, May 04, 2006, Blogger blogdai said...

Hmm, food for thought.

Was there a democratic process in Tibet during the Chinese takeover? No protests there: torture and death are a great negative incentive.

Black apartheid protestors DID represent the majority and DID represent a democratic moral high ground. Does Girija? He sure claims to want "absolute democracy" and yet the protests he led were purely factional.

Indian protests and Ghandian marches may have been the most courageous. Again, moral high ground and wide ranging compatability of ideas not factional interest.

I see where we're getting off track now. blogdai apologizes for the lack of clarity on this point. What do we mean by majority? Democratic majority? Should we measure it with a moral compass? The protests and non-protests you've mentioned seem to have one thing in common: the represent the wishes and desires of the majority to be free and unopressed. If elections are held and honest, elected officials should reflect these sentiments.

Do narrow minded, single issue protests like we've seen in NEpal represent the views of a majority?

In a telling survey in the Nepali times yesterday, a full 40 % of Nepalis fail to comprehend the ideas of a constituent assembly. Another full 14% have never heard of it at all. That combines to over half of all those surveyed having little or no knowledge of the concept: a majority.

Funny, Girija claims to represent the will of the people and takes to the streets with his number one agenda of constituent assembly at the forefront of his and the Maoists demands; yet over half of all Nepalis are not clear on the concept---some majority.

Perhaps you mean Maoist majority.

-=blogdai

 
At 11:39 AM, May 04, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

SPAM bullshitters. Everytime they open their mouth, they axe their feet.

5:25 AM, May 04, 2006 said "How can you teach someone of democracy under an autocratic system?"

My dear SPAM bullshitter. Let Blogdai do what he does best. I will handle you here.

So you said Autocratic System. Hmmm, can you define Autocratic? Now, don't runaway. Come, stop throwing stones, sit down with me, have a cup of chiya, and define autocratic. Oh, you are having fun throwing stones? Comeon please, for once stop throwing stones, come and sit down and let's talk on democracy and autocracy. What? Now, you have started burning tyres! Please mate, sit down let's talk something for this country. No way, you can't bring a strike for 19 days. You have to come and sit down for talks. What? The Maoists are forcing you to throw stones and burn tyres...Well, I am sorry. You are in trouble. I guess you sort out your things with Maoists and their autocracy.

Whitewash your brains. Don't talk shits here. You are welcome to go to three websites I talked about earlier.

 
At 11:53 AM, May 04, 2006, Blogger blogdai said...

Still not clear?

Does any majority protest against an in-place system or set of ideals designed to represent all people?

Under a democracy, lots of minority groups have the right to protest against the government, promote any idea, sane or otherwise, and just have their voice heard in public.

Both aparthed and the British Raj represented the ideals of minority, colonizing cultures. Eventually, as we know, majorities have their say, as I pray, the Tibetans will someday.

Girija and his constituent assembly platform represent a minority position. Nepalis themselves just want peace.

I'm starting to regret the unfortunate choice of phrasing in "majorities don't protest" but the larger point is if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Nepal was quite functional under the King's takeover. Constant protests and bandhs by the parties plus Maoist violence were the SOLE source of the instability we've seen in Nepal; and the majority of people in Nepal wished they could just be left alone by the parties and Maoists and go on with their lives.

Unfortunately, Nepal lacks a sense of national unity, or this REAL majority would rise up, voice their opinions to their elected or appointed leaders, and establish peace. Unfortunately again, with no elections or representation, the concerns of this majority will stay unheeded.

Perhaps when they have finally had enough, they will realize that national unity--either the south aftrican or Ghandian models, take your pick-- would give them a legitimate reason to take to the streets and prove blogdai wrong.

-=blogdai

 
At 12:00 PM, May 04, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Which Nepali Times survey yesterday? Huh? Do you mean last month?

The last Nepali Times survey found that on the issue of a constituional assembly, 57.1% had actually heard of it (34.4% hadn't heard of it). It's simply a case that many people need educating about it, especially since on the question of the constitution the same survey found, 19.6% thought Nepal needed a new constitution and 31% thought the current constitution needed amending - another majority.

 
At 2:09 PM, May 04, 2006, Blogger blogdai said...

Yep, the last month's poll which was reprinted in the most recent Nepali Times. Here's your quote:

"However, the Himalmedia poll also proved that a future constituent assembly election must be explained clearly to the people. In last month’s poll 57 percent said they had heard of a constituent assembly and when asked if they understood what it stood for, 40 percent replied ‘heard but not understood’ and 15 percent said they ‘didn’t understand’."

Here's your link: http://www.nepalitimes.com/issue/295/Nation/11676 The article is called: Now For the Hard Part.

By the way, this same survey said that fully half of all respondents were in favor of a constitutional monarchy, as well. Where does THAT fit into Girija's and your "majority?"

-=blogdai

 
At 2:13 PM, May 04, 2006, Blogger blogdai said...

And oops! Did I just hear the sound of you shooting yourself in the foot?

If it is simply a matter of educating people on a constituent assembly, shouldn't the parties have waited until citizens WERE educated instead of claiming this phony mandate as the people's representatives?

It seems unlikely to blogdai that people would take to the streets with such passion over a concept they barely understand, eh?

Ok, maybe we'll call it the Girija/Maoist majority, but no further!

-=blogdai

 
At 2:21 PM, May 04, 2006, Blogger blogdai said...

This was all done in other threads so let's not belabor it again.

By it's own admission, the survey was skewed by a large amount of males who were not afraid to talk to a reporter. So the majority you claim is a majority of politically astute and possibly educated males. A majority of a minority segment of the population, if you will.

Read about how the survey was conducted and how many were afraid of reprisals.

Even among these brave males, it is still striking that a majority do not fully comprehend the idea of a constituent assembly.

Makes one wonder who exactly it was that brought the issue to the streets, doesn't it.

We've said it a million times here: one need look no farther than the Maoists.

-=blogdai

 
At 12:19 AM, May 05, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just wanted to float this and see what happens. Do most of Nepali trust Maoist? see themselves being experimented as in Animal Farm (book), and accept doctrine that is outdated, which robs civil liberties, freedom of expression, and individual rights?

Now the issue is, is this the time for APPEASMENT ??? WWII revisited.

 
At 12:54 AM, May 05, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just a few notes on the “Mass Uprising”:

1. The "mass uprising" consisted of between 100,000–200,000 people, counting protestors all over the nation on the best days. That is 0.87% of the 23 million Nepali people.
2. In the periphery of Kathmandu and outside Kathmandu, throughout Nepal, the Maoists dictated that households had to send at least one volunteer to the protests or face the consequence of paying NRs. 5,000. That is about US$ 70. A fresh college graduate with a government job gets paid about NRs. 7,500 per month in Nepal. So the fine imposed by the Maoists for not participating in the protests was about two-thirds the monthly salary of an employed government officer in Nepal.
3. Kantipur media repeated the same footages of the protests day after day, even when there were no one out on the streets, like in Lubhu of Kathmandu, where people came out only one day, but Kantipur kept reporting of “thousands of people marching towards the ring road from Lubhu…” everyday for the remainder of the 19-days. God knows where else people were actually not out on the streets except in the eyes of Kantipur reporters. Except of course the three main junctions, Gongabu, Chabahil, and Kirtipur/Kalanki, reporting of movements in all other areas as reported by Kantipur Inc. is very doubtful.
4. I think we all know this, even those of us who were no where near Nepal. THE DEMONSTRATIONS WERE BY NO MEANS “PEACEFUL.”
5. Despite the above fact, Kantipur and the rest of the media failed to show the extent of the vandalism and utter disregard for public and private property by the mob, always choosing to start filming footages only after the cops had no other choice but to charge with (i) tear gas, (ii) batons, and (iii) rubber bullets—A clearly biased perspective.
6. Some reliable sources told me that Kantipur had actually approached the King’s men right after February 1 and flatly told them that their business was about making money, so if the King could “compensate” them what the “others” were paying them then they would write on behalf of the King’s government. Apparently they were not paid. This is how media is run in Nepal.
7. Bottom line is, our Big Brother in the south has apparently guaranteed that they will mainstream the Maoists into the democratic process—and the world turned a blind eye to all else. Now let us hope that Big Brother is right—or else salute to Prachanda for fooling the entire world!

 
At 5:03 AM, May 05, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bullshit. The survey wasn't skewed. It followed the patterns of Nepali life, i.e. that males have greater say in Nepali politics (as they do in much of Nepali life). I believe males accounted for 60% of survey respondents.

You're right we don't need to go over this agin if it's already been discussed but please stop spinning the results to favor your arguments.

 
At 9:13 AM, May 05, 2006, Blogger blogdai said...

I don't know what I can tell you then, I published verbatim the results of the survey. Where is your disconnect point on this?

If a minority of males runs the show then that is not necessarily democratic is it? It most certainly is not a majority, is it?

At what point do you feel this represents an adequate sample of outraged Nepalis who, in their majority, feel the need to take to the streets in support of a constituent assembly?

What about those males without educations who felt intimidated by survey methods? What about the youth or those suspicious elders we read about? No, these males were politically or intellectually astute enough to know the implications of survey-taking. Does this level of insight, on a village level, imply something less than a party or political proclivity?

Spin vs. analysis: What is manufactured vs. what is plausible. That's all you need to know.

-=blogdai

 
At 10:31 AM, May 05, 2006, Anonymous manan said...

About the Maoists being an imminent danger, you're probably right about. When they hold peaceful rallies but banners behind them read ' the only way forward is through weapons, weapons and more weapons', one is certainly left with a very uncomfortable feeling in the stomach. However, meeting violence with violence was never the solution, especially since the RNA has neither been renowned for either judgment nor humanity. As in Peru, the Maoists have to be defeated with a combination of force, intellegence and concern for the countryside.

Lets give Prachanda and his pals time to see if they can change. Thing with communists is that they generally talk loud. Prach himself is a case in point. We'll capture Kathmandu today and then Delhi and Washington tomorrow, says he. What sorts of hallucinogenic mushrooms grow out there I don't know, but I believe he's been having some. Furthemore, I don't know how many of their rallies had 'weapons.weapons..' banners prominently displayed, so I suppose its not good to take one example as a sign of general intent.

 
At 4:24 PM, May 05, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blogdai,

Please stop spinning. If more than half do not understand Constituent Assembly (CA), it does not mean that they support the current constituent assembly. By your logic, if only 40% turned out to vote, then nobody should be elected because majority did not support one candidate.

According to the same poll, more than 50% wanted to either amend current constitution or wanted a new one. I am sure number of supporters have increased since the Royal fiasco. If so many people see something wrong with the current constitution, then we should seriously consider getting a new one and I think the best way to get a new one is through a democratic process i.e. CA election. We cannot have a poll to check if we need a constituent assembly. If you like the present constitution so much, why don't you campaign to keep the current constituion in the CA election. If majority side with you, then you can keep the current constituion.

Here is why I think we should go for CA election.

1) We have never had an elected body write a constitution. The current constitution was a deal between royalist ex generals and high caste brahmins in the political parties and it did not really represent all the people of Nepal.

2) Maoists want it, political parties want it, majority of people want it. So what is wrong with having a CA to solve the current problem. This will be an exit strategy for all.

3) Majority of people want changes in the constitution.

4) It is possible that people may vote to keep the current constitution as well. So it will legitimize it. It is a democratic process.

P.S. Please stop using just the parts from the poll that support your belief. By the same poll, 65% were not positive about King. That means King has no mandate to continue.

 
At 5:12 PM, May 05, 2006, Blogger blogdai said...

(It can truly be said now that blogdai is committed to open debate since, I believe, this is the Manan who called me an "idiot" on another blog for what he/she believes is my habit of deleting even the most reasonable anti-G. comments. Indeed. -=BD)

Yes manan, I'm all for giving Maobadis a chance, but when will we learn? We've given them numerous chances. We have not just one, but constant examples of Prachanda's desire for violence. Now we hear Babu Ram saying the Maobadis went out of their way to infiltrate and coerce participants in the Kathmandu demonstrations.

Sound like the voice of contrition? The fact is "weapons, weapons.." banners don't surprise me; a banner from the Maoists that says "the peaceful resolution of differences..." would probably knock blogdai to the floor.

The maoists have momentum, power and they've not had to concede an inch of their ideology or violent behavior in the process. Why should any of us believe they would start now.

by the way, you're forgiven for calling me an idiot.

-=blogdai

 
At 6:46 PM, May 05, 2006, Blogger blogdai said...

And, hey, 4:24,

Your first paragraph left me numb so I'll ignore it.

come to think of it, your second paragraph made less sense than the first, so as a courtesy, I'll not comment on that either.

But! I smell the stirrings of a true democrat in your posting!

Yes! By all means, if the people chose, through elections to change the constitution then fine, change the constitution. and Yes! If everyone wants a contituent assembly then, by god, lets hold and election and see how it turns out!

But, as blogdai has said before, there is nothing wrong with the Nepali constitution. It was the people put in charge of its administration that were crooks. We're seeing it again: Girija's first task is to elect his NC cronies to the choicest posts. His second task, WITHOUT THE BENEFIT OF PUBLIC REFERENDUM OR ELECTION, is to change the constituion so he can pry loose the army from G. and consolidate his position.

Plus, his spoiled brat get-even gestures like limiting the royal budget and recinding the past municipal elections shows he's a man who holds a grudge.

You say the maoists want a constituent assembly; you bet they do. It is their number one smoke screen. They can back door their cadres right up to the highest seats of parliament this way. They know there will never be an effective means of monitoring remote elections to such an assembly, so they will manipulate these with ease.

blogdai has a hunch that girija's slow incompetance will prevent the formation of a constiuent assembly in a timely mannner and thus cause the Maoists to lose patience. (they're already calling for the dissolution of parliament and a prominent place in some sham "interim government>')

We ain't out of the woods yet, people; not by a long shot.

-=blogtao

 
At 8:32 AM, May 06, 2006, Blogger Ian said...

CA is not a bad idea per se but:

1. Maoists need to disarm before elections are held

2. Independent body (say from EU, UN or elsewhere) should monitor elections to ensure they are open and free.

Only elected representatives with a mandate from the people deserve to decide on a future constitution.

Currently Koirala holds no elected mandate and nor do any members of parliament. Their terms have expired and so they no legal justification to make any changes until they seek a proper mandate from the people.

To do this, a CA would provide some sort of exit strategy for the SPA, Maoists and King but it must be done properly, fairly and peacefully otherwise it resolves nothing.

Blogdai is right, we are not out of the woods yet. The present conditions are favourable but the situation is fragile, rests on a number of egos and there are powers at work that uncomprimising and self-destructive.

Let us hope the future is brighter than our fears allow.

 
At 8:58 AM, May 06, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blogdai,

What is wrong with decreasing Royal Budget? After all, King G increased it seven fold? If the whole country is feeling the pinch from economic slowdown, then the King should feel it too to free up some cash to help the poor people. After all with so many business interest, the King is not poor.

Also, we have to stop all these medical reimbursements to royal relatives. The most interesting one being Deuba giving Rs 10 million to a Royal relative for some medical procedure in London under Royal pressure. This is ironic in a country where so many die from simple illness like dioherra.

I do not have problem if some maoists are elected to the CA under a free and fair elections. But one condition should be to disarm maoists or merge maoists militia to nepal army prior to CA. However, to do this we will probably have to disconnect royal ties to army and rename it to nepal army. And I am for it.

 
At 10:02 AM, May 06, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ian,

Right, we are nowhere close to being out of the woods. But still I think CA is a fair and most peaceful way to move forward.

However, there are hundreds of things that could go wrong including Maoists walking out, RNA not cooperating, SPA infighting, royalists fear mongering and so on.

The April movement was successful because people supported it. I wish there were institutions in Nepal so that people could remain united to push all the fighting parties go for CA.

 
At 8:59 PM, May 06, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

10:02, for the umpteenth time, the mob movement of 19 days was not supported by any real people. My cousins and people all over Nepal have been telling me. Not me, but there is no one gawd damn soul who can say that this was a people's movement. I received an email saying that the maximum attendence for any gawd damn rally all over Nepal (taken together) on any particular day was not more than 8,00,000 (that's the Maxxxxxxxxx and the population of Nepal is 22.2 million). One humble writer here put the estimates at 2,00,000 Gawd damn it, half of them were forced, the other half paid and the remaining were culprits. For gawd's sake, remove your mob mentality and talk sense.

 
At 10:47 PM, May 06, 2006, Anonymous g said...

aa ah, wrong right there/ CA what ever it is supposed to mean is not fair. when you have a gun pointed to your head, you would say you fkd your mother land. as all of us know, a large portion of nepla (i dont care if it is mis spelt) is mao ruled land. so , unlike democracy, maos ganna have their say and with guns and government, we gonna accept it.
so much for throwing gyane chor.
the only hope for nepal.

dont ever think there is gonna be a fair PEOPLE's MANDATE with a part of political force carrying guns.

 
At 10:59 PM, May 06, 2006, Anonymous g said...

you want to know what happened in nepal. for once-th more time.

think of you self as a poor man who has 100Rs to live a week. you go to a bhatti and gobble it up. hobble it up. stuffle it up. now you are broke for the rest of the week.

thats what you did. king was always loney and needed support of people to enthrone his throne. you could have always thrown him out, just a little bit of protest and he would give in. would maoist do that? fck moaist. would Spa do that?

you just spent your hundred rupees on a feast, something you could have got for 10 rs. now hope that you can survive for the rest of the week.

i dont know if you know what i am getting at. i wont explain.

nobody here likes gyane. but we always said lesser of two evils. now the difference between us is you all think gyane is more evil than maoist or spa. we think gyane is less evil than those two bllod suckers.

time will prove who is right.

and i do hope we were wrong.

and you were right.

love nepal, but cant see it;s future. maybe you guys can, and are fighting for it. well good luck.
anything for nepal.

by the way, i support girija right now.

 
At 1:02 AM, May 07, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Welcome to the jungle, folks. Maoist with their simple yet effective strategy have almost every aspect of the governance by the balls. I see Madhav stomping, berating and accusing of injustice done and Situala on a pulpit screaming to make a way for the Rebels, who are on the wing. Are they scared shitless? Can't they even request Maoist to lay down their arms before any talks or before they capture assembly by threat to 205 members. I suspect their sanity

Regardless where you stand - it is quite plain that we are already in communist era.The only thing that is not quite evident is-when will the real hammer fall and all the high rising pitch for Democracy and media house ( earned 7 crorer in 19 days, courtesy of India) have their biased mouthpiece shut up.

To look at it- Maoist are controlled by high Class Brahmins, political parties and high offices are the same. A note,this was heard that they postponed forming a cabinet due to all the candidates being a Brahmin. If this is the trend then, do not have to wait too long for the sectarian violence erupt as in the case of Iraq.

Zealotry shall bring the destruction of a nation and a simple folks of Nepal shall bear the hardship, pain and one party rule- just because of vindictiveness of ONE CLASS of PEOPLE.

 
At 1:20 AM, May 08, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So much for Thaksin as a good example, Thai court rules election invalid:

Thailand's Constitutional Court has ruled that the recent general election was invalid, and another must be held.

Judge Ura Wangomklang said the court had decided by nine votes to five that the 2 April poll was unconstitutional.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4983600.stm

 
At 8:21 AM, May 08, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ian said:


CA is not a bad idea per se but:

1. Maoists need to disarm before elections are held

2. Independent body (say from EU, UN or elsewhere) should monitor elections to ensure they are open and free.

Only elected representatives with a mandate from the people deserve to decide on a future constitution.

Currently Koirala holds no elected mandate and nor do any members of parliament. Their terms have expired and so they no legal justification to make any changes until they seek a proper mandate from the people.

To do this, a CA would provide some sort of exit strategy for the SPA, Maoists and King but it must be done properly, fairly and peacefully otherwise it resolves nothing.

Blogdai is right, we are not out of the woods yet. The present conditions are favourable but the situation is fragile, rests on a number of egos and there are powers at work that uncomprimising and self-destructive.

Let us hope the future is brighter than our fears allow.



Agree with you Ian on the CA. However, it seems you think Girija has the mandate to "make changes" to the constitution. He does not. He is not trying to. That's CA's job. CA by definition is an elected body.

Sure, Blogdai is right about the country not being out of the woods. The question is, would you help the country get out of the woods or help push it further into the woods. It feels that the team of Blogdais here are just happy to see the country stuck in the woods, just to prove themselves right.

 
At 4:50 PM, May 08, 2006, Blogger blogdai said...

You absolute moronic idiot!

How in god's name, after this entire year can you possibly reason that blogdai would love to see Nepal remain in turmoil so I can be proved right?

Have you read nothing here?

Blogdai, Ian and others have done nothing BUT show you how to avoid disaster and get yourselves out of this mess. This is a forum for new ideas. We've suggested advocacy, a workable constitution, changes to the Alliance and ways to deal with the Maoists. How you or anyone can think we are not doing everything we can to help is beyond me.

If you cling romantically to your visions of a people's movement that emulates the french revolution and refuse to listen to any rational contrary voice, who's fault is that?

So now, only after what we've been screaming for months will happen becomes obvious enough to the most dull-witted of you, do you want blogdai's help.

Pathetic, retarded creature; you deserve what you get. Only by making this new Maoists era as difficult and as painful as possible will you remember the foolishness that brought you to this point, I'm sure.

-=blogdisgusted

 
At 6:59 PM, May 08, 2006, Anonymous g said...

just as we have always been saying, neoal and nepalese are nit ready for democracy yet. we have not yet developed that democratic brain yet. hopefully, with the maoist rule for another several decades or couple of centuries, whichever is less, we will evolve into democratecus nepaliensis and democracy will flourish in nepal.
now i think i will go for communism, maoism just because they seem to be the only one knowing what they are doing.

laal laal salaam
a fist on my head
yeah

 
At 4:50 AM, May 09, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Back after 3 weeks in Nepal. Interesting to see the contrasting styles between NTV and Kantipur.

NTV: the police on the backfoot and footage of burning and looting of govt offices.

Kantipur: the demonstrators on the backfoot, lots of kids and the same footage repeated several times throughout the news episode and the next day.

And who shot Dr Hemang Dixit of KMC? My guess - Maobadi gangster extortionists. No doubt there will be a lot more of those in the future.

This goes onto my next point. The importance of the need for the security forces who I felt acted with pretty reasonable restraint given the circumstances.

A packet of dry wai wai instant noodles and a carton of frooti all day until you're back in the barracks. Breakfast of champions...

Anyway, once again I totally agree with Dr Thomas Mark's analysis on the situation. The security forces are the only thing between us and the Maobadi.

Already we are hearing ridiculous talk of a coup by the army or the King doing the same again. Where will they get their arms/supplies/replenishments from?

No doubt this kind of nonsense will gain momentum. It may sound sensational but think back to Chamberlain's failed attempt at detente with Hitler. You need to hold some aces when you negotiate after all...

http://www.nepaleyes.com/read.php?topic=opinion&id=62

naagboy

 
At 8:33 AM, May 10, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blogdai said:

You absolute moronic idiot!

Ian, how interesting! Blogdai, who hates being labelled an idiot, is quite happy to use the label on others quite liberally.

It's quite clear in both his attitude and tone that he is against the idea of the People's Movement II (labelling it a "mob"), against the idea of the restoration of democracy (redefining "democracy" on his own narrow tastes), and against the idea of royal sidelining (by mongering fear of Maoists' takeover of Nepal).

Tell me, what has the group of Blogdais and other die-hard royalists done to tame the Maoists and bring them to the mainstream, other than to load up and point bigger guns at the people of Nepal? In belittling the people's movement that saw the participation of a wide section of professionals and people from all walks of life, both in and out of country, Blogdai is obviously using a distorted lens to make value judgments of the movement. He was probably among the folks that were rather enjoying the scenes of lathi-charges from his living room!

Before the ring-wing royalists put on a cloak of democracy and pretend to teach others a thing or two about democracy, it would have been wiser if they had practiced an iota of democracy when they still had the chance.

Nevertheless, I wouldn't say Blogdai is an idiot, just misled.

 

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